Religion As Punishment

[Recusant]

A fellow mentioned the other day that when he was a youngster he was made to attend church services as a form of punishment. It raises some questions.

On its face, is religion a form of punishment? Does society impose it on its members to oppress them? It's one way of looking at it, and a fairly reasonable one at that.

If it is punishment, are there at least some religious leaders that are aware of what they're doing? Or is it more common for the leaders to think that they're actually improving the lives of their flocks?

I think these are interesting questions. But they aren't the only ones. There are also the particulars of the inspiration for this thread.

Is it foolish to assume that at least one parent also attended these services? It would seem that the parents didn't think much of church themselves if they used it as punishment. Or was it that our fellow atheist found the services so distasteful that attending them felt like torture? While the parents thought "It'll do him good" the opposite was the result.

I can agree on the dreariness of church services. Most priests and reverends aren't particularly compelling speakers, though they often don't realize that themselves. As well, coming up with pertinent and persuasive homilies at least once a week requires an agile mind. Sad to say, agile minds aren't thick on the ground, even among those who find a religious calling. Chances are, you'll get the standard ritual performance of the service, reading from the Bible (o joy!) and a tiresome monologue from a dullard. Week after week. Yes, it could be called tortuous.

On the other hand assuming a parent also attended the services, they were subjecting themselves to the same torture. Perhaps they didn't view it in the same light. Assuming the youngster informed them of the effect of the services, they thought it would be "character building"?

There were siblings who were not compelled to attend church. If their behavior was good enough to avoid church, they must have been exceptional children. 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I grew up in Southern Baptist churches. I hated church services, which is a probably a sentiment that is shared by many people, if they are honest. On the other hand, I loved the hymns we sang. If Christianity can be said to have contributed anything relevant to culture, it would probably be its music, and maybe its art. I can sing all the verses of many hymns today at almost 74 years of age.

Part of it seems like punishment. Another part of it seems sublime. Go figure.

[Icarus]

Preachers have access to canned sermons. Many  of them have subscriptions. Said sermons are presumably written by skilled authors.

I suspect that AI could produce some real zingers.

[zorkan]

https://archive.org/details/twelveyearsinmon00mccauoft/page/n5/mode/2up

I think it was in this book I read that youngsters who didn't want to get out of bed at 3am were carried into the chapel.

No wonder McCabe became an atheist.

[GreenBlaze]

I think parents send their children to church because they have that faith and they follow it as a family and that is what they do. May be they see it also as good discipline/values and structure for their child to grow up in.
Some church's have a junior church and may be more of these are needed, to may be 16.
My sister took her children to church, one got a games console though and seemed to didn't want to go anymore staying on it overnight. I watch some services online and some sermons and structure doesn't seem suited for all, 40 minute sermons and many songs may suit some though some young though it may put them off. They need to look at this for retention.
My parents never forced me to go church. My sister who was 3 years older though post 14 would take us occasionally on special events. I went to a Catholic school to 19 and we prayed as a family together though. I went to mass at school occasionally and had mass assemblies. Religion was never used as a punishment on me and I wish my parents sent me to Sunday school. I carved my own personal journey of my faith when I left school at 16 briefly and returned the next year in a sixth form. It works best as a personal thing and many church's are changing and I have listened to many intelligent sermons.

The church I go to is 30 minutes and has no singing and the sermons I have enjoyed many and they are 6-11 minutes usually. I like going and it gives me a sense of starting new in the week, it always has. I like the sermons so much I record them to read them back at home because I cannot take it all in when they speak with my autism they speak to fast for me some. Doing it for yourself with any religion is important and the key thing that will help to sustain your faith is doing it on your own  terms and for you.

[billy rubin]

i attend quaker meeting whenever i can, which is seldom, as i work sixth, seventh, and first days. but theyre quite a contrast to what is see as typical services.

there's no program. no priests, no sermons, no songs. at least planned in advance. no hand out explaining which pages of the book of common prayer to turn to. no board on the wall with numbers identifying which songs will be sung.

people filter in, sit down, and shut up. after a while there will be a roomful of people. anybody can speak, but nobody says anything unless they are led to. the identification of the source of that leading is where quakers differ. sometimes somebody sings a song. sometimes somebody reflects on an experience theyve had. sometimes an hour or so goes by in complete silence from everybody.

around the end of an hour, sometimes longer, one of the old farts assigned the task of discerning when its over reaches out and shakes hands with some other old fart. then everybody shakes hands and we're done.

quaker meeting is vastly peaceful. once youre accustommed to settling in, it becomes similar to meditation, except where meditation requires the attempt to blank out one's consciousness, quaker waiting worship is composed of active listening.

id like to get to meeting more often, but so far im settling into a three day work week, and shifting those three days is pretty difficult.

[Icarus]

Good listening has become a vanishing art.

[billy rubin]

yes. and so has simple quiet.

ive sought out quiet all my life, and ive lived in pretty noisy places.

where i live now i can stand in the road and talk to my wife a hundred feet away in a normal conversational voice.

quiet on the outside helps build quiet on th einside, and you cant listen when youre blanketed with noise, inside or out.

[Dark Lightning]

I'd like to live in a place like that. My wife just got hearing aids today, so I'm hoping that the blaring TV noise will be gone. I'm looking into living elsewhere, because of that and the barking dogs. I'm pretty stressed because of it. Talking about it hasn't helped.

[Icarus]

I have been around noise most of my lie. Machine shop, motorcycles, race tracks, sports stadiums, etc.  Did not do my hearing acuity any good I'm sad to say.

I have always wanted a small quiet chamber in which to relax and shut out all that damned worldly noise.  I have been a sailor for much of my life and that is one of the places that is quiet when the weather is just right.

[Icarus]

DL you can get some Sony headphones for your wife. They operate on wi-fi from the TV. They have volume controls and they will let the user hear the TV even if several rooms away. like when you want to use the bathroom or go to the kitchen for a sandwich and still be able to hear what's going on with the TV. You can also mute the TV and still hear the sounds in the earphones. That works really well if one of you wants silence and the other one wants to watch, and hear, the programming.

The earphones cost about $100 and is one of my best investments.  They come with their own charger and one charge will last several hours.

[Dark Lightning]

I think her new hearing aids have Bluetooth. That won't stop the dogs barking. We have a 1-1/2 year old Chihuahua mix and a 2-1/2 year Chihuahua. The youngest one starts in when she even thinks she's heard the front gate, and the other one picks it up. She has some hound in her, and what would be baying comes out as a scream. Once they get going, the beagle/dachshund mix starts up. That dog's bark is so loud that it sets dishes ringing.

[Recusant]

Knowing that plenty of people find the idea of the zap style of anti-bark training collar distressing, somebody came up with a less unpleasant training collar which vibrates and beeps (no zapping) that has got good reviews. Before more drastic measures it would seem worth a try. I think there are probably a number on the market but one I saw was called "Teacup Bark Collar" by a company called Elecane. I believe they make different sizes as well.

From the sound of it    I'd think all three of the beloved canines could do with that or a similar item. I sympathize--some dogs have an ear-rattling bark that's extremely tiresome not to mention bad for the hearing if you're too near them. I live with one of them and he's not as bad as some for frequency of barking but he has a voice on him. Has an indoor voice but fails to use it mostly. He has a lot of fur so a bark collar probably wouldn't be particularly effective but chihuahuas and the beagle-dachshund mix should be a different story.

[Dark Lightning]

Yeah, a neighbor put a shock collar on his dog. Apparently there are power level settings. It would bark, then yelp from the zap, then yelp again. Another collar has a compressed air cylinder and puffs out a scent of your choice. I can be refilled and have no scent. My wife knows a gal who has one of those devices. The dog discovered that it runs out, and stands there and barks until it does.