Church going is resurging worldwide especially in young men

[Tank]

...

People as you have agreed are clearly searching for something during these difficult times and since I wrote this even there have been new strikes going on in the military. This is a hard time to be a young person no doubt.

Religions have never made it a secret that they prey on the vulnerable as their main source of victims.

[Asmodean]

This is a hard time to be a young person no doubt.

I agree. The pervasive doom peddling online does not help. Western kids today have more or less been born with a smart phone and grow up with TikToks and Snapchats and are connected to the outside world in a way unique to the past two generations - sometimes with very little "street smarts" in how to approach half-truths, propaganda, conspiracy theories, etc.

I say that because their parents suck at that too. For far too many people, if a legitimate-sounding talking head says something, they may believe it. If some other talking head takes that exact point from that exact source and repeats it, they get reinforced in their belief. And so a brand new bullshit train is born. That happens many times a day, unfortunately.

And so, many of them kids can be forgiven for thinking that the world is circling the drain and the sky is falling. In some very specific ways, that is true. However, that has always been true. For instance, I see your COVID and raise you smallpox, poliomyelitis and plague - just to start with. I see your Middle East and raise you the Crusades. I see your hurricane <insert name> and raise you the fall of Pompeii. So forth. The difference is that today, even if it's not in your living room, the media and social networks will bring it there "by force." Far too many people, even - perhaps especially - the younger ones, don't know how to deal with it in a sustainable, mentally-healthy way.

There is a light at the end of the current tunnel. For those who only see Metallica's freight train coming their way, however, the divine may offer... An alternate reality, of sorts. Or a happy ending at its end. Or both.

So yeah... The skeptics among us do have quite a job to do still - and we "always" will.

[zorkan]

https://www.christianpost.com/news/uk-churches-rebuked-for-hosting-rave-in-the-nave-events.html

"The decision to host such events has been met with protests and objections from various groups, including Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Evangelicals, Anglicans and even atheists and agnostics."

For me to go along they'd have to at least play a few Abba hits.

[Recusant]

https://www.christianpost.com/news/uk-churches-rebuked-for-hosting-rave-in-the-nave-events.html

"The decision to host such events has been met with protests and objections from various groups, including Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Evangelicals, Anglicans and even atheists and agnostics."

For me to go along they'd have to at least play a few Abba hits.

They didn't bother to explain what objection an atheist might have to this. Personally I don't see a problem.

[Asmodean]

Indeed. Oh, I'm certain that there are a few embittered Atheists out there, who would have objections "just" because a church does a thing. Personally, I'm not one of those.

[zorkan]

In the right circumstances some atheists might find they are theists after all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anglicanism/comments/1amsytc/last_nights_rave_party_at_canterbury_cathedral_is/

I don't subscribe to the idea we are all born atheists, then we are brainwashed into theism until we gain control of our mind and then become atheists.
When I was born I knew nothing.
When I die I will know nothing.
I came out of the darkness and accept one day I will return there.
The universe works like that.

What made me an atheist were church posters which get away with lies because religion gets away with it.
"God saved me. I had cancer. I prayed. I got better!"
No mention of any accepted medical treatments that were taken.
"God (or Jesus) loves you!"
I don't like veiled threats.

[Asmodean]

I don't subscribe to the idea we are all born atheists, then we are brainwashed into theism until we gain control of our mind and then become atheists.

You say that, and yet...
 

When I was born I knew nothing.
When I die I will know nothing.

Gnosticism/agnosticism pertain to knowledge; theism/atheism pertain to belief in deities.

If you were born without such belief, you were born atheist. Whether or not you sit on the fence knowledge-wise (or even the possibility thereof) is a different answer to a different question.

It is largely a semantic argument though. People are not precisely born as blank slates, but they are born very little in terms of outside input processing in their "data warehouse." There is little to suggest that religion, therein its deities, is any more fundamental than those outside inputs to be processed, categorised and potentially result in complex behaviour.

I came out of the darkness and accept one day I will return there.
The universe works like that.

I'd say life works like that, but from what we know of the Universe, that too is largely accurate.

What made me an atheist were church posters which get away with lies because religion gets away with it.
"God saved me. I had cancer. I prayed. I got better!"
No mention of any accepted medical treatments that were taken.

They often do have a correlation-causation problem. B came after A, therefore A must have caused or at least affected B. And so one day it rains buckets after the village shaman was seen prancing around his hut while shroomed out of his mind aaand just like that, a ritual is born. (There is a bit more to it, but it does hold as a first degree approximation)

"God (or Jesus) loves you!"
I don't like veiled threats.

Yeah, I got a bit of that over the years. So some dude of questionable cosmic origin has feelings for me. And..? So..? OK..? Yes..? What?! If you happen to love me, that's a you problem. I am under no social, moral or other obligation of any kind to reciprocate that love.

So yeah. Sorry, Jesus, it's just not going to go anywhere.

[zorkan]

What are your answers to these questions, please.

What supporting evidence do we have for any event mentioned in the bible?
Who were the gospel writers?
Did any of them ever meet "Jesus"?
Why were the Dead Sea Scrolls quietly forgotten?
If god is love then why does he send souls to the lake of fire?
How old is the first surviving biblical manuscript?
If the bible is replete with contradictions, then which ones are we supposed to trust?
Why are we expected to rely on faith?
 

[GreenBlaze]

What are your answers to these questions, please.

What supporting evidence do we have for any event mentioned in the bible?
Who were the gospel writers?
Did any of them ever meet "Jesus"?
Why were the Dead Sea Scrolls quietly forgotten?
If god is love then why does he send souls to the lake of fire?
How old is the first surviving biblical manuscript?
If the bible is replete with contradictions, then which ones are we supposed to trust?
Why are we expected to rely on faith?
 

Hi Zorkan
I will bite and I have seen a post from you where you wrote you are a lapsed Catholic so it might not be that hard as you are not fresh at this and have some understanding. I don't know all of the answers though.

My take-
1. From my understanding they still have things in Jerusalem historical wise from the time of Christ and oral tradition as well.  In Bible's I have read there are pictures of where the Last Supper occurred in modern day Jerusalem. There are also artefacts like the Turin Shroud.
2. A lot of Gospel Jesus were Jesus' disciples, but the New Testatment itself featured inspired writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit by other writers like Paul who was a founder of the early Christian church. Also it featured other work by writers like Timothy who were a friend of Paul who were a preacher.
3. Yes some of them and Paul met Jesus and has many books written in the New Testament.
4..From a trusted source-These scrolls were found in caves south of Jericho in the Dead Sea are and containing Bibiical and inter-testatmental materials. There are two scrolls Isaiah, one being complete, most of the first two chapters of Habakkuk, and fragments and of all of the Old Testament books with the exception of Esther. These findings by archeology contribute to our possessions of some of the oldest tests of the Old Testament. to our understanding of inter-testamental times, and to a better understanding of Hebrew and Aramaic. The Bible is made of more than Scrolls so we cannot use them alone. Christians use the New Testament as Christians which Jesus brought a new era and spirit of truth.
5. I think in life we get paths and if you believe in that faith then if you don't believe in God and accept his son as the salvation and follows his teachings and do evil, then that is what happens for that faith. I read there will be different versions like levels of hell not in the Bible. There may be a pit of hell for demons and also perhaps a place of limbo for those who never quite made it, but were generally good people but had no faith and it won't be hell as such, such absence of God.
To me, hell is just like eternal shouting and blaspheming and carnal behaviour all the time pretty much.
Last question faith-you cannot just rely on faith as a Christian, you need to be baptised into the body of Jesus for remission of sins and faith is essential as well and so is love and obedience to God.

[Icarus]

Greenblaze, you are holding up the bible as an authority.  Which one ? You have many choices. Chronologically here are some of your options.

The Hebrew bible of about 800 BC, the Septuagint of about 250 BC, New Testament 50 to 150 AD, old Latin translations, then the Latin Vulgate, then the Alcuin, the Paris bible, the Wycliffe, the Gutenberg, The Erasmus translation, The Luther bible, The Tyndale translation, The Coverdale Bible, The Mathew  bible, the Geneva bible, Bishops bible, Douai-Rheims bible, Whew! we are finally at 1611 with the King James Bible written by a committee of 54 scholars.   

Did King James scholars all agree with one another?  Did James have any say in the matter?

You are aware that the writings were interpreted, by scribes using quill pens on papyrus or animal skins.  Is it reasonable to imagine that some of the scribes made a mistake in translation or that some of them might have modified the text in ways that they thought appropriate?

 

Greenblaze, I respect your dedication to your beliefs as do some of my  more generous fellow HAF members.  I beseech thee to respect our skepticism. If you must attempt to sell your religion, then you will be more successful when addressing a less learned segment of society.

Go in Peace

Icarus       

[Dark Lightning]

I like science fiction, but I draw the line on the religious sort and simply ignore it.

[GreenBlaze]

Greenblaze, you are holding up the bible as an authority.  Which one ? You have many choices. Chronologically here are some of your options.

The Hebrew bible of about 800 BC, the Septuagint of about 250 BC, New Testament 50 to 150 AD, old Latin translations, then the Latin Vulgate, then the Alcuin, the Paris bible, the Wycliffe, the Gutenberg, The Erasmus translation, The Luther bible, The Tyndale translation, The Coverdale Bible, The Mathew  bible, the Geneva bible, Bishops bible, Douai-Rheims bible, Whew! we are finally at 1611 with the King James Bible written by a committee of 54 scholars.   

Did King James scholars all agree with one another?  Did James have any say in the matter?

You are aware that the writings were interpreted, by scribes using quill pens on papyrus or animal skins.  Is it reasonable to imagine that some of the scribes made a mistake in translation or that some of them might have modified the text in ways that they thought appropriate?

 

Greenblaze, I respect your dedication to your beliefs as do some of my  more generous fellow HAF members.  I beseech thee to respect our skepticism. If you must attempt to sell your religion, then you will be more successful when addressing a less learned segment of society.

Go in Peace

Icarus       

Icarus

I didn't actually mention my beliefs at all in this thread to let everyone speak freely about the research and their own views. Myself, I have studied religious studies and several religions of the world and also I am a social scientist by heart and like reading about the sociology of religion. So this revival in Christianity and in what most faiths are doing interests me. I think generally where it may be hard to obtain up to date information people deserve a right to just up to date information which is factual so all views they have can be properly and fully considered.

I am though a Christian, but didn't come here at all to convince anyone otherwise at all based on my thoughts and discussion on that.

I think I mentioned more than the Bible as a source-I mentioned oral tradition as well which is oral communication passed down.
The Old Testament if you were Judaic you relied on other sources too like the Talmud as well. I also mentioned about historical religious buildings still being in view today like where the Last Supper took place which is called the Upper room which is called the Cenacle often as well. There is a nativity grotto in Bethlehem that still stands to as well where Jesus was born. The Calvary exists to where Jesus was crucified. I like to see old relics like this, I have autism as well and I like to see objects and things like this.
I use the KJV Bible from the 1970s  I searched ebay for a copy. It is so helpful with the breakdown of everything and full descriptions with information you cannot get today. I think I will ponder and consider these more your questions I didn't feel  right to answer not knowing enough about all of them.

My views are quite spiritual and not so historical, so I am not the best person for answers about Jewish biblical history. My faith I do trust the Bible and I didn't imagine to bring this up here, but now it is come up and I didn't come to convince anyone of anything and respect your views to be an atheist, people have to choose for themselves and you cannot force anything on anyone. I have seen miracles and had healing from God and have spiritual gifts from him to which helps strengthen my faith and I have observed miracles and mysteries in the church. I have got a blog and it is one of my hobbies and I was never going to share it here, but I believe in being frank and open when you need to and you felt my beliefs. I will share with everyone my blog and my own written story and a post on the supernatural and my faith which is meant to be light hearted. I came and told you all some up to date news and I do not speak very much in the real world. I wish you all well.

Me and my faith
https://www.racheltestimony.com/2022/09/my-testimony-of-gods-grace.html

A little spin on Supernatural and my faith, I don't know if any of you remember Alex Mack etc and I enjoyed them to and the Darkest Minds as well. Also where science goes I have a post on that to I will link as it mentioned about science. Remember we all make our minds up freely about anything as adults and especially with a faith.
https://www.racheltestimony.com/2025/07/just-having-fun-with-alex-mack-kid-spin.html

One post on healing
https://www.racheltestimony.com/2025/04/brain-healing-from-god.html

Creationism/Big Bang Theory-
https://www.racheltestimony.com/2025/06/holding-onto-god-creator.html

[billy rubin]

I use the KJV Bible from the 1970s  I searched ebay for a copy. It is so helpful with the breakdown of everything and full descriptions with information you cannot get today. I think I will ponder and consider these more your questions I didn't feel  right to answer not knowing enough about all of them.

from the 1970s, greenblaze? please correct me if im wrong, but if thats your KJV, then be aware that what you are looking at is very different from the original 1611. in letterpress printing, the assembled forms are set into individual galleys, which are the actual images to be printed, 8 pages at a time on a single sheet. typos and corrections were made on the fly, and printing continued. as a result, no two original kjvs are the same as any other, with all the implications of that. what we use today is typically a later reprint of a best-guess 1611 kjv assembled in 1769, heavily edited and with massive deletions, including the prefaces to the readers, and all the cross references. just sayin, because thats only the typo step-- the kjv has suffered from many mutilations, deletions, and additions ever since.

if you want a real kjv, which includes the astronomical tables, the apocrypha, the editorial instructions from the translators, and most importantly-- the actual, original cross references between verses-- you will need to get a more specialized book.

they are available in facsimile form. mine is no longer in print, but amazon sells them,. here is one

https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-King-James-Version/dp/1565638085/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3AAVFL0ZLZPMF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DZdVVV1YJrdXikrWomYcDvTPktJ6rTUTBiYaEB_QmjWqMc6hBH41pcz432Fv0WnA-Lw-CA-k8kRqrwfGZmGnePXsA01pfO4ic1PiY72JPhdvFlyvd4BtuzhQjbmbjOgyEGdrhXLMuSIyQarmnEih076LXqBWZP_fELBPXZtWAgnY7yZPxELQmfFT4U4Zf2TJk7cMBqL95d4YzroacnLw8T8ua0Z-Dk1chyKPfAsd_1bfHRzVm-MgIOhMvXTCXLpOHSt4nGNSvSlexOXEEQE1YYNSs5rb6xr8u-z4Ummc6Dk.xH_p5rlgLUSRt7HmxNoGOb4C6_1ODVyCWqnrNE6hrAw&dib_tag=se&keywords=1611+bible&qid=1753721447&sprefix=1611+bibl%2Caps%2C861&sr=8-3

[Icarus]

We have a variety of "good books" that causes me to wonder. They are all held to be the true word of  God.  Among the titles that cause me some puzzlement are the ones that use the word; Revised or the word; New.

CEV; contemporary English Version
GNB; Good News Bible
KJV; probably the most popular here in the US
NIV;New International Version
NAB; New American Bible
REV; Revised English Bible
RSV; Revised Standard Version
 
Toss in some of the European texts and you discover ......VT; Vetas Testamentum., ZAW;Zeitschriftfur die altestamentlischewissenschaft, ZDMG, and ZBVp  both with other complicated German descriptions. There are plenty more to choose from.

Which of them shall I accept as authentic or obey the details of the things he commands me to do as well as commanding several things or thoughts that I am forbidden to do or think.

What about the Koran, The teachings of Buddha, Lao Tze, Confucius, and all those other purveyors of wisdom and piety? 

My head hurts when I try to sort all that stuff out. Grand Solution that works for me is to dismiss all of it as mere wishful thinking.

 

[GreenBlaze]

I use the KJV Bible from the 1970s  I searched ebay for a copy. It is so helpful with the breakdown of everything and full descriptions with information you cannot get today. I think I will ponder and consider these more your questions I didn't feel  right to answer not knowing enough about all of them.

from the 1970s, greenblaze? please correct me if im wrong, but if thats your KJV, then be aware that what you are looking at is very different from the original 1611. in letterpress printing, the assembled forms are set into individual galleys, which are the actual images to be printed, 8 pages at a time on a single sheet. typos and corrections were made on the fly, and printing continued. as a result, no two original kjvs are the same as any other, with all the implications of that. what we use today is typically a later reprint of a best-guess 1611 kjv assembled in 1769, heavily edited and with massive deletions, including the prefaces to the readers, and all the cross references. just sayin, because thats only the typo step-- the kjv has suffered from many mutilations, deletions, and additions ever since.

if you want a real kjv, which includes the astronomical tables, the apocrypha, the editorial instructions from the translators, and most importantly-- the actual, original cross references between verses-- you will need to get a more specialized book.

they are available in facsimile form. mine is no longer in print, but amazon sells them,. here is one

https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-King-James-Version/dp/1565638085/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3AAVFL0ZLZPMF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DZdVVV1YJrdXikrWomYcDvTPktJ6rTUTBiYaEB_QmjWqMc6hBH41pcz432Fv0WnA-Lw-CA-k8kRqrwfGZmGnePXsA01pfO4ic1PiY72JPhdvFlyvd4BtuzhQjbmbjOgyEGdrhXLMuSIyQarmnEih076LXqBWZP_fELBPXZtWAgnY7yZPxELQmfFT4U4Zf2TJk7cMBqL95d4YzroacnLw8T8ua0Z-Dk1chyKPfAsd_1bfHRzVm-MgIOhMvXTCXLpOHSt4nGNSvSlexOXEEQE1YYNSs5rb6xr8u-z4Ummc6Dk.xH_p5rlgLUSRt7HmxNoGOb4C6_1ODVyCWqnrNE6hrAw&dib_tag=se&keywords=1611+bible&qid=1753721447&sprefix=1611+bibl%2Caps%2C861&sr=8-3

Thank you billy rubin, i'll take a look at that and see also If I can see it online first and see how much the words differ. I haven't actually quoted any scripture in this post from the Bible. I do have other versions which are newer at home like the Good News and earlier versions of KJV but I like mine as well from childhood and all the pictures and general information contained detailed explanations of things like the Sea Scrolls and the Holy Spirit which in modern day Bible's you cannot find. Thank you for pointing that out though.

This is the Bible I own and you see what it is like from these pictures-Link