Why are we here? - Islam

[iSok]

This is the best translation of the original Qur'an.

You need to read the King James version of the Koran. All other translations were written by Satan.

By Dr. Laura Vaglieri

The Miracle of Islam par excellence is the Quran, through which a constant and unbroken tradition transmits to us news of an absolute certainty. This is a book which cannot be imitated. Each of its expressions is a comprehensive one, and yet it is of proper size, neither too long nor too short. Its style is original. There is no model for this style in Arab literature of the times preceding it. The effect which it produces on the human soul is obtained without any adventitious aid through its own inherent excellences. The verses are equally eloquent all through the text, even when they deal with topics, such as commandments and prohibitions, which must necessarily affect its tone. Stories of Prophets, descriptions of the beginning and the end of the world, enumerations and expositions of the divine attributes are repeated but repeated in a way which is so impressive that they do not weaken the effect. The text proceeds from one topic to another without losing its power. Depth and sweetness, qualities which generally do not go together, are found together here, where each rhetoric figure finds a perfect application. . . . We find there vast stores of knowledge which are beyond the capacity of the most intelligent of men, the greatest of philosophers and the ablest of politicians.

By F.F. Arbuthnot

From a literary point of view, the Korân is regarded as a specimen of the purest Arabic, written in half poetry and half prose. It has been said that in some cases grammarians have adapted their rules to agree with certain phrases and expressions used in it, and that, though several attempts have been made to produce a work equal to it as far as elegant writing is concerned, none have as yet succeeded.
It will thus be seen, from the above, that a final and complete text of the Korân was prepared within twenty years after the death (A.D. 632) of Muhammad, and that this has remained the same, without any change or alteration by enthusiasts, translators, or interpolators, up to the present time. It is to be regretted that the same cannot be said of all the books of the Old and New Testaments.



Hence, any translation comes not even near the original.
There are many translations available, the one I linked, is widely regarded as one of the best.

[Velma]

I've read a little bit of it.  However, I found it turgid and boring.  I keep telling myself I'll try it again, but it's hard to force myself to read something that dull.

This is the best translation of the original Qur'an. -->http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php
Well, let me say this, if you read it sincere.
And you start with the intention: 'There's a possibility there's a truth here' and you ask sincere for guideness.
The Qur'an will crumble down every doubt you have, it's not blind faith.

Before I start with proving it's divine origin, some verses from the Qur'an I found inspiring.


“What We recite to you consists of signs and wise admonition.” [Qur’an 3:58]

“Did you imagine that We created you without any purpose, and that you will not be brought back to Us?" [Qur’an 23:115]

“Do they not reflect on themselves? Allah created the heavens and the earth and whatever lies between them in Truth and for an appointed term. Yet many people deny that they will meet their Lord.” [Qur’an 30:8]

“Soon shall We show them Our Signs on the horizons and in their own beings until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is a witness over everything?” [Qur’an 41:53]

“Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.” [Qur’an 49:13]


Basically the Qur'an now and then speaks  of signs.
It continuosly  asks us to reason, to think, and to see some of it signs.

Furthermore the Qur'an is timeless. Some of it's verses we do not understand
and do not know what they mean. We didn't understand some verses a while back
but now we do.

I'll give an example of it soon.

Even if your holy book holds examples of some of finest literature ever written and makes me laugh or cry, that proves nothing.  Words on a page have moved people to feel all sorts of emotions.  Before you repeat your assertions that your holy book is written or inspired by a deity, you need to prove that deity exists.

[iSok]

I hope you have a bit of knowledge of physics, otherwise I'm willing to explain.


"By which the angels and the Spirit, ascend to Him in one Day the duration of which is fifty thousand years."[Qur'an 70:4]

Angels are made of light.

The lorentz transformations, I hope you understand a bit of physics.

t’ = (1-v2/c2)-1/2 (t-vx/c2)

where  v = speed traveled
c = the speed of light (5.88 x 1012 miles/year)
x = position in space (defined by the equation x2 = c2t2)
t’ and t (single day = 2.7397 x 10-3 years and 50.000 years)  are the two differing time perspectives.

Do you know what the answer will be for v (traveled speed by object) if you use those values for t' and t ?
yes indeed, the speed of light. Coincidence?

What that means is that two observers moving at different speeds will perceive time, size, and mass to be different. At speeds such as those traveled by humans in the present age, such differences are negligible.
Not when you travel at the speed of light.

The Prophet was actually illiterate, most people think he wrote the Qur'an.

[LegendarySandwich]

[youtube:1pha2l6q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op0kJ0N0p0M[/youtube:1pha2l6q]
[youtube:1pha2l6q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHjH66gPhM4[/youtube:1pha2l6q]

[iSok]

This one is nice too.

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." [Qur'an 51:47]

The expansion of the universe, which we all agree upon.

(This is an example that no one understood when it was relevated, but now we do,hence the Qur'an is timeless)

Or this one..everything came from one point.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" [Qur'an 21:30]

The big bang, when all matter that we know was in an infinite density (with other words NOTHING)

[Tank]

This one is nice too.

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." [Qur'an 51:47]

The expansion of the universe, which we all agree upon.

(This is an example that no one understood when it was relevated, but now we do,hence the Qur'an is timeless)

Or this one..everything came from one point.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" [Qur'an 21:30]

The big bang, when all matter that we know was in an infinite density (with other words NOTHING)

NO PREACHING: While everyone is welcome to discuss their views in a civil manner, this forum is not a podium for those that only wish to preach. This rule applies to atheists and theists alike.

[Existentialist]

First of all, thank you so much for all the warm welcomes.
I have to say, I didn’t expect this kindness.

Existentialist
The reason I came here is to discuss about the believe in God
from Islamic perspective. With discussing this, I will give proof for the existence of God.
Yes it may be shocking that I think that there is proof, and you may think that I am deluted, but please bear with me till I have posted it.
I hope you can let me do that, it is for us individually to determine whether that proof is consistent.
I will post these points in my upcoming replies.

About the Islamic music, I understand you don’t mean culture-related, but rather religious ‘music’.
We don’t really call it music, but it is indeed mesmerising. I can give you a link to youtube, which is in my opinion is the most beautiful call to prayer I’ve heard so far (the adhan/azan).
Here’s the link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ   - I hope you’ll enjoy it.
The translation is included in the video description in case you are interested.

The second link: http://www.mounthira.com/index.php?a=downloads
On the page, download in audio section ‘Ayatul kursi’, A beautiful recitation.
It’s a verse from the Qur’an, which muslims regard as the most important.
In times of hardship muslims recite this verse to strengthen the soul.
If you do need more, please say so.

Thanks iSok for your links which were very useful.  I think the aesthetics of islam probably cannot be divorced from its teachings without losing a lot of the meaning.  I may be wrong but I would imagine that the Koran is a little bit like the works of Shakespeare: not written to be read, instead put into written form so that it could be performed, then passed on by rote - in pre-printing times.  So much is lost when it becomes dark type on a light background.  Also I would think that I as an atheist find the links aesthetically pleasing for not understanding the words.  An english chant of the same words would probably be offputting because it would take the mystery out of the words.  It's interesting that the call to prayer you linked me to sounds very authentic to begin with, but seems to move towards westernised instrumentals towards the end.

Thanks again for the links.  I hope you get something out of exchanging thoughts with people here.

[Velma]

You can quote from your holy book all you want.  However, until you have established that your god exists and that your holy book was written by that god, quoting from it is pointless.  Oh, and you cannot use the quran to prove the quran.

[LegendarySandwich]

I'm still waiting for proof of its divine origin.

Remember -- extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[iSok]

I don't really understand, I'm really sorry, but I'll try to explain.

I give proof by quoting Quranic verses that explain the matter of universe.
And what do I get as a reply?


- Don't preach
- Two video replies about another subject, it's like talking about apples and then you jump to oranges..


First I promised that I would proof that the Qur'an can't be written by a mere man, so I quote the Qur'an.
By showing certain verses which cannot be written by a man.
So now I have to proof that the Qur'an is divine without using the content of the Qur'an, doesn't that sound strange to anyone?

It's like 'tell me how good this movie is, without seeing the movie' ...is that common sense?

Just because you don't understand something, does that mean that it doesn't exist?

'I don't understand evil, therefore God does not exist.'

'I don't understand the theory of relativity, therefore it can't exist'

I showed 3 verses, which are all three right (if you not react or discuss them)...and yet some reply with the most vaque sentence


'I'm still waiting for proof of its divine origin.

Remember -- extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.'

Is that from Spiderman? Ben Parker: 'Remember (Peter) Great power requires great responsibility'

I really am confused...
It's almost midnight here, so I am kind off tired.
Do read my posts again, to understand what I mean.

[LegendarySandwich]

I don't really understand, I'm really sorry, but I'll try to explain.

I give proof by quoting Quranic verses that explain the matter of universe.
And what do I get as a reply?


- Don't preach

Simply quoting passages from your book that, with a little interpreting, sound like very simplistic statements of the universe that we now because of modern science is not compelling enough evidence. The Koran is about the same size as the Bible, yes? With all that text, I'd expect there'd be some coincidences like that.

- Two video replies about another subject, it's like talking about apples and then you jump to oranges..

Earlier we were talking about evil and morals and stuff, or at least I was. I saw the videos on Youtube, and thought they were relevant.

First I promised that I would proof that the Qur'an can't be written by a mere man, so I quote the Qur'an.
By showing certain verses which cannot be written by a man.

How couldn't they be written by man?

So now I have to proof that the Qur'an is divine without using the content of the Qur'an, doesn't that sound strange to anyone?

It's like 'tell me how good this movie is, without seeing the movie' ...is that common sense?

It's actually more like "The contents of this movie are true, because of the movie".

I showed 3 verses, which are all three right...and yet some reply with the most vaque sentence

See above.

[iSok]

Simply quoting passages from your book that, with a little interpreting, sound like very simplistic statements of the universe that we now because of modern science is not compelling enough evidence. The Koran is about the same size as the Bible, yes? With all that text, I'd expect there'd be some coincidences like that.

I was not finished, before I began some accused me of preaching, and not replying or discussing.

Earlier we were talking about evil and morals and stuff, or at least I was. I saw the videos on Youtube, and thought they were relevant.

The videos were of 0 content, like I said. Please show better arguments of authority. In a debate
it's better to stay on the subject, instead of jumping to subjects which already came by.

How couldn't they be written by man?

You'll see soon if you let me.

It's actually more like "The contents of this movie are true, because of the movie".

No that's not true, I have to discuss parts of the movie which are brilliant without watching the movie.
'This director was so brilliant but I didn't see his movie, he just is brilliant.

[LegendarySandwich]

Earlier we were talking about evil and morals and stuff, or at least I was. I saw the videos on Youtube, and thought they were relevant.

The videos were of 0 content, like I said.

They first one pointed out why a loving, omnipotent, omniscient creator couldn't have created the Earth, and the second one points out that it'd be better to believe in a son god than the Judeo-Christian God.

No that's not true, I have to discuss parts of the movie which are brilliant without watching the movie.
'This director was so brilliant but I didn't see his movie, he just is brilliant.

You can say the Koran is brilliant, but you can't point to its claims and say they're true because of the book that they're in. You can say that it's true because it has predicted future events, which so far you have failed to convince me of.

[Existentialist]

Earlier we were talking about evil and morals and stuff, or at least I was. I saw the videos on Youtube, and thought they were relevant.

The videos were of 0 content, like I said.

They first one pointed out why a loving, omnipotent, omniscient creator couldn't have created the Earth, and the second one points out that it'd be better to believe in a son god than the Judeo-Christian God.

No that's not true, I have to discuss parts of the movie which are brilliant without watching the movie.
'This director was so brilliant but I didn't see his movie, he just is brilliant.

You can say the Koran is brilliant, but you can't point to its claims and say they're true because of the book that they're in. You can say that it's true because it has predicted future events, which so far you have failed to convince me of.

Why not just enjoy the Koran as a work of fiction?  We all know there's no God and that the content of the Koran isn't true.  I just wonder if it's a bit pointless trying to persuade a muslim who thinks the book is brilliant that its claims aren't true.  What's the worst consequence of letting someone hold the view that something is true while not obtaining the proof that it is?  It's still a good book - or at least as good as the person who reads it out or chants it, and such things are a matter of opinion anyway.

[LegendarySandwich]

Why not just enjoy the Koran as a work of fiction?  We all know there's no God and that the content of the Koran isn't true.  I just wonder if it's a bit pointless trying to persuade a muslim who thinks the book is brilliant that its claims aren't true.  What's the worst consequence of letting someone hold the view that something is true while not obtaining the proof that it is?  It's still a good book - or at least as good as the person who reads it out or chants it, and such things are a matter of opinion anyway.

It's called a debate for a reason.