Why are we here? - Islam

[Existentialist]

Why not just enjoy the Koran as a work of fiction?  We all know there's no God and that the content of the Koran isn't true.  I just wonder if it's a bit pointless trying to persuade a muslim who thinks the book is brilliant that its claims aren't true.  What's the worst consequence of letting someone hold the view that something is true while not obtaining the proof that it is?  It's still a good book - or at least as good as the person who reads it out or chants it, and such things are a matter of opinion anyway.

It's called a debate for a reason.

Thanks for the reply LS.  What's the reason?

[LegendarySandwich]

argue with one another; "We debated the question of abortion"; "John debated Mary"

That's the reason we call it a debate.

[Existentialist]

argue with one another; "We debated the question of abortion"; "John debated Mary"

That's the reason we call it a debate.

Ok that's fairly circular so I'll leave you on that carousel, but is your aim to get a muslim to say that there is no proof that the Koran is true?  Just wondering where we're going with this.

[Velma]

Why not just enjoy the Koran as a work of fiction?  We all know there's no God and that the content of the Koran isn't true.  I just wonder if it's a bit pointless trying to persuade a muslim who thinks the book is brilliant that its claims aren't true.  What's the worst consequence of letting someone hold the view that something is true while not obtaining the proof that it is?  It's still a good book - or at least as good as the person who reads it out or chants it, and such things are a matter of opinion anyway.

Two words for you:  Saudi Arabia

[iSok]

Ok, the next argument.
An argument of authority.


In the Qur'an the development of the human embryo is described.
Scientists around the world, specialised in human embryology were gathered
to speculate about this. Check the link.
And read what they have to say about this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

[Existentialist]

Why not just enjoy the Koran as a work of fiction?  We all know there's no God and that the content of the Koran isn't true.  I just wonder if it's a bit pointless trying to persuade a muslim who thinks the book is brilliant that its claims aren't true.  What's the worst consequence of letting someone hold the view that something is true while not obtaining the proof that it is?  It's still a good book - or at least as good as the person who reads it out or chants it, and such things are a matter of opinion anyway.

Two words for you:  Saudi Arabia

Come on, Saudi Arabia is a client state of the US.  That's no way to treat our friends!

[LegendarySandwich]

Ok, the next argument.
An argument of authority.


In the Qur'an the development of the human embryo is described.
Scientists around the world, specialised in human embryology were gathered
to speculate about this. Check the link.
And read what they have to say about this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

...You do realize that arguments from authority are logical fallacies, right? Why would you even describe your argument as such?

@ Existential: How is it circular? The definition of the word debate is to argue with someone; I am arguing with someone; therefore, it is a debate.

[Gawen]

At any rate, I've tried that route. After reading a few Suras I'll wager ones reaction will be, "How can anyone believe this crap?" It sounds impossible, but the Koran is even more boring, tedious and uninspiring than the Bible.

...Oh God. Seriously?

Seriously.

[iSok]

Ok, the next argument.
An argument of authority.


In the Qur'an the development of the human embryo is described.
Scientists around the world, specialised in human embryology were gathered
to speculate about this. Check the link.
And read what they have to say about this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

...You do realize that arguments from authority are logical fallacies, right? Why would you even describe your argument as such?

@ Existential: How is it circular? The definition of the word debate is to argue with someone; I am arguing with someone; therefore, it is a debate.

What am I doing?

Proving the divine origin of the Qur'an.

How do I do that?

By showing content of the Qur'an that was unknown to man 1400 years ago

How do I proof that, that that content is true?

By quoting world renewed scientist, scientist who are probably the top on Human Embrology.

So what do they conclude?

Man couldn't know that, since we know this barely 50 years.
 So some of them started believing in a God.

These are basic values of a debate...
I don't show youtube video's of people randomy talking, and one of them being a religion hater.
Adding nothing to the debate.

[Existentialist]

Ok, the next argument.
An argument of authority.

In the Qur'an the development of the human embryo is described.
Scientists around the world, specialised in human embryology were gathered
to speculate about this. Check the link.
And read what they have to say about this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

Hi iSok.  Thanks for the post and thanks once again for the links earlier to the call to prayer.  The development of the human embryo can easily be observed.  Since the evolution of man about a million years ago, there have been enough generations of curious people, albeit of different levels of competency, to carry out autopsies of people at various stages of pregnancy.  I don't really see that this is divine insight, although I don't mean to devalue the metaphorical or sense of divine insight that might be gained from reading the quran.

[Velma]

At any rate, I've tried that route. After reading a few Suras I'll wager ones reaction will be, "How can anyone believe this crap?" It sounds impossible, but the Koran is even more boring, tedious and uninspiring than the Bible.

...Oh God. Seriously?

Seriously.

That was my reaction, Gawen.  I suppose I could force myself to read it, but there are so many other things to read that are worth reading.

[LegendarySandwich]

I don't really see that this is divine insight, although I don't mean to devalue the metaphorical or sense of divine insight that might be gained from reading the quran.

Stop being so...civil.  

[LegendarySandwich]

Ok, the next argument.
An argument of authority.


In the Qur'an the development of the human embryo is described.
Scientists around the world, specialised in human embryology were gathered
to speculate about this. Check the link.
And read what they have to say about this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

...You do realize that arguments from authority are logical fallacies, right? Why would you even describe your argument as such?

@ Existential: How is it circular? The definition of the word debate is to argue with someone; I am arguing with someone; therefore, it is a debate.

What am I doing?

Proving the divine origin of the Qur'an.

How do I do that?

By showing content of the Qur'an that was unknown to man 1400 years ago

How do I proof that, that that content is true?

By quoting world renewed scientist, scientist who are probably the top on Human Embrology.

So what do they conclude?

Man couldn't know that, since we know this barely 50 years.
 So some of them started believing in a God.

These are basic values of a debate...
I don't show youtube video's of people randomy talking, and one of them being a religion hater.
Adding nothing to the debate.

Are you really going to keep bringing up the videos I posted?

Also, are you not going to address the logical fallacy problem I pointed out?

Also also, like Existentialist said, this is not proof of divine origin.

[iSok]

Ok, the next argument.
An argument of authority.

In the Qur'an the development of the human embryo is described.
Scientists around the world, specialised in human embryology were gathered
to speculate about this. Check the link.
And read what they have to say about this.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html

Hi iSok.  Thanks for the post and thanks once again for the links earlier to the call to prayer.  The development of the human embryo can easily be observed.  Since the evolution of man about a million years ago, there have been enough generations of curious people, albeit of different levels of competency, to carry out autopsies of people at various stages of pregnancy.  I don't really see that this is divine insight, although I don't mean to devalue the metaphorical or sense of divine insight that might be gained from reading the quran.

Also on a molecular level?
When you need a electron microscope? (invented in 1931)

That's what they talk about (if you have read it)
So it couldn't be known back then.

[LegendarySandwich]

Specifically in which scriptures are the development of the human embryo described?