Why are we here? - Islam

[Existentialist]

@ Existential: How is it circular?

I asked you what the reason was for pressing a muslim to say there are no proofs of the truth of the quran.  You said 'it's called' debate for a reason, I asked for the reason, you said the reason was to fulfil the definition of the word debate.  

Really I meant what's the reason for trying to get a muslim to say there are no proofs.  

Having said that I'm not of the view that the quran contains any scientific information.  That doesn't stop it being a good book.

[Existentialist]

Specifically in which scriptures are the development of the human embryo described?

Oh I can answer that.  None of them.  Really, LegendarySandwich you're completely missing the metaphorical point of all this!

[Existentialist]

I don't really see that this is divine insight, although I don't mean to devalue the metaphorical or sense of divine insight that might be gained from reading the quran.

Stop being so...civil.  

Sorry

[LegendarySandwich]

@ Existential: How is it circular?

I asked you what the reason was for pressing a muslim to say there are no proofs of the truth of the quran.  You said 'it's called' debate for a reason, I asked for the reason, you said the reason was to fulfil the definition of the word debate.  

Really I meant what's the reason for trying to get a muslim to say there are no proofs.

Because we're debating.

Having said that I'm not of the view that the quran contains any scientific information.  That doesn't stop it being a good book.

Define "good".

[Existentialist]

Define "good".

aesthetic

[iSok]

is this a debate about Islam?

Or a debate about what defines a debate?


Ls. your question about in what religious scripture that (embryology) is stated...well it is in the Qur'an (The scripture we have been talking about for hours..and hours)
You call yourself already an atheist, while you don't even know the most basic answers to religion.....

So far..in this almost 75 posts large topic, the only two objections I found against the existence of God.

- Lack of proof  --> I'm giving proof, but all the proof I give..people do not seem to read, or is it just me? All the proof I give is either coincidence or dumb interpretation.
  Are we really open minded here?

- Problem of evil   --> (I explained evil)  --> no one questioned it?

Ls, how can you reasonably follow a debate, if you don't have a clue about the Qur'an....you talk about 'scriptures?'

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that so many of you closed all doors and convinced themselves that there is No God.
No one here has ever read the Qur'an... (Islam, second largest religion in the world)...but you call yourself atheists....I thought atheists were convinced by
evaluating every religion. To me it sounds more and more a hype from what I have seen here.


Or am I wrong?

[LegendarySandwich]

I mean which scripture specifically, not the book it's in.

[Existentialist]

is this a debate about Islam?

Or a debate about what defines a debate?

Islam is the main debate, what defines a debate was a secondary debate that was sparked off by the main one.  

Ls. your question about in what religious scripture that (embryology) is stated...well it is in the Qur'an (The scripture we have been talking about for hours..and hours)
You call yourself already an atheist, while you don't even know the most basic answers to religion.....

Can I ask why an atheist needs to know anything about religion?

So far..in this almost 75 posts large topic, the only two objections I found against the existence of God.

- Lack of proof  --> I'm giving proof, but all the proof I give..people do not seem to read, or is it just me?
- Problem of evil   --> (I explained evil)  --> no one questioned it?

I hope you don't mind if I put forward a third.  That despite all the proof you're putting forward, someone else holds a different position on the existence of God.  We shouldn't really need proof either way, if you think that what you believe is important, proof has no impact.

[Existentialist]

I mean which scripture specifically, not the book it's in.

I can answer that.  It's not in any scripture.

[LegendarySandwich]

- Lack of proof  --> I'm giving proof, but all the proof I give..people do not seem to read, or is it just me? All the proof I give is either coincidence or dumb interpretation.
  Are we really open minded here?

Emphasis my own.

- Problem of evil   --> (I explained evil)  --> no one questioned it?

The New Testament wasn't written by Jesus, and the Torah wasn't written by Moses, but okay.

Inspiration by their sayings.

He's still the one sending you to Hell.
Maybe if you don’t develop lungs in the womb you can’t breath here.
And if you don’t develop a certain amount of ‘goodness’. Maybe you can’t exist(breath) in heaven and hell is your place?

And who made it that way?

Fair enough -- but you still believe that belief in God/Allah is the most sure-fire way to get into Heaven, don't you?

Lifetime guarantee, that it’s the best way.
Believing means also, believing in God's morals.
I wish I had a free ticket, but I don't have.

So, you simply have to believe in some morals?

Well, you can find it out with reasonable certainty.
It depends on which version of the afterlife you mean.

I mean the really ugly one

Which really ugly one?

Like I said before, because of our free will we will be individuals.

Why is it good to have free will? Why is it good to be an individual?

Believing in something which we are not commanded to, just asked too.

And if we politely respond "no, thank you", we will go to Hell.

He’s already creating you, isn’t he? Experiencing this life is part of creation.
This life is the final stage for creation. It’s that you experience it slow.

...What.

Ls, how can you reasonably follow a debate, if you don't have a clue about the Qur'an....you talk about 'scriptures?'

Like I said before, I've never read the Koran. Passages? Verses? What specific text of the Koran describes how embryos mature?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that so many of you closed all doors and convinced themselves that there is No God.

A lot of us here do believe that there is no God -- no Judeo-Christian god, that is.

No one here has ever read the Qur'an... (Islam, second largest religion in the world)...but you call yourself atheists....I thought atheists were convinced by
evaluating every religion. To me it sounds more and more a hype from what I have seen here.


Or am I wrong?

All three Abrahamic religions have the same basic core concept. I don't spend my time reading all the world's religious scripture. Give me a reason to read your specific holy book, and I will.

[LegendarySandwich]

I hope you don't mind if I put forward a third.  That despite all the proof you're putting forward, someone else holds a different position on the existence of God.  We shouldn't really need proof either way, if you think that what you believe is important, proof has no impact.

...

[Existentialist]

I hope you don't mind if I put forward a third.  That despite all the proof you're putting forward, someone else holds a different position on the existence of God.  We shouldn't really need proof either way, if you think that what you believe is important, proof has no impact.

...

You seem to be scratching your head, LS.  Why?

[iSok]

Can I ask why an atheist needs to know anything about religion?

Please Existent, you are not seriously meaning this.....this just shows how you decided to be an atheist....
May I ask your personal story, were you raised as an Atheist? or Religious? you can PM it.

I hope you don't mind if I put forward a third.  That despite all the proof you're putting forward, someone else holds a different position on the existence of God.  We shouldn't really need proof either way, if you think that what you believe is important, proof has no impact.

well, why do I think that there's a God?

- Well I don't need proof of the type I showed here.


-  It is whenever I pray, I am off this world.
   It's a certain spiritual feeling, I can't describe it, something you need to experience.

- Or when you read the Quran, every doubt in my heart is destroyed., it's almost if the Qur'an commands you to think
  and reflect.

- I used to care about materialistic objects, they are nice but not essential in life.
  There's a certain type of calmness in my heart, in my mind that I neither can't describe, this feeling is especially strong after prayer
  A feeling of peace.

- I can control myself far more than before(anger for example), my moral has grown in some way since I started practising.

- Not terrified of loss of loved ones in my life, the feeling that everything is going to be alright.

- I am more encouraged to achieve things in life and contribute things to society. I was lazy before, but now I try to use my time the best way possible.


Some of the things, why I think God exists.
And for people who do not have these feelings, there are many signs and proofs.
If you use your common sense and connect all the dots that will appear, you'll see the whole picture.

Atleast, that if you want God to exist.

[LegendarySandwich]

Can I ask why an atheist needs to know anything about religion?

Please Existent, you are not seriously meaning this.....this just shows how you decided to be an atheist....
May I ask your personal story, were you raised as an Atheist? or Religious? you can PM it.

I hope you don't mind if I put forward a third.  That despite all the proof you're putting forward, someone else holds a different position on the existence of God.  We shouldn't really need proof either way, if you think that what you believe is important, proof has no impact.

well, why do I think that there's a God?

- Well I don't need proof of the type I showed here.


-  It is whenever I pray, I am off this world.
   It's a certain spiritual feeling, I can't describe it, something you need to experience.

- Or when you read the Quran, every doubt in my heart is destroyed., it's almost if the Qur'an commands you to think
  and reflect.

- I used to care about materialistic objects, they are nice but not essential in life.
  There's a certain type of calmness in my heart, in my mind that I neither can't describe, this feeling is especially strong after prayer
  A feeling of peace.

- I can control myself far more than before(anger for example), my moral has grown in some way since I started practising.

- Not terrified of loss of loved ones in my life, the feeling that everything is going to be alright.

- I am more encouraged to achieve things in life and contribute things to society. I was lazy before, but now I try to use my time the best way possible.


Some of the things, why I think God exists.
And for people who do not have these feelings, there are many signs and proofs.
If you use your common sense and connect all the dots that will appear, you'll see the whole picture.

Atleast, that if you want God to exist.

Appeal to consequences logical fallacy.

I don't have those feelings. I never did, and I can say with reasonable certainty that I probably never will. I was a Christian before...maybe I should have been a Muslim to experience those things?

What signs and proofs? So far you've only pointed to a couple vague scriptures that you have interpreted to be very simplistic statements about modern scientific knowledge, and you have still failed to give me the exact scripture/passage/verse/whatever you call it in your religion where the Koran describes how an embryo matures.

[LegendarySandwich]