Passion of the Christ

[Ihateyoumike]

Passion o' christ, Saw 2-10, Hostel... They're all the same. Crap stories and too much greusome violence to be worth watching.

[Kylyssa]

It was their standard treatment for criminals back then.  Why is it so special that Jesus got the same treatment as anyone else?  Also, as others have said, there are people who have suffered as much for far longer.  I remember a relative who died with cancer that metastasized to her bones.  It took six months of intense suffering before she died.  Even with morphine, the vibrations from people walking softly into her room caused her agony, the rumble of a passing truck sent shudders through her body which then caused more pain.  And, unlike Jesus, she had committed no crimes.  

Jesus committed crimes.  Remember when he attacked the moneylenders in the temple?  What would happen if someone attacked the people inside a bank or church in this day and age?  Certainly, they wouldn't be executed but even common thieves were executed two thousand years ago.  It usually took several offenses before a thief or other petty criminal was executed but Jesus had the gall to commit his crime in a temple.  I don't think it was right to execute him but he got no worse than other criminals of the time.  He was lucky he didn't get impaled on a short stake instead.  He even got to die faster than most people executed by crucifixion.  The Roman with the spear was being merciful.

[AnimatedDirt]

I do wonder, how is it a sacrifice when, in the end, he lost nothing?  He knew how the story was going to end - with him going back to where he came from with more accolades than when he left.  Even if you count his supposed thirty years on earth (including the crucifixion) as part of the 'sacrifice',  it still means nothing in that light.  The story doesn't even pass muster as decent fiction, much less the tale of a deity supposedly come to earth.

That did get me to think about how his last few moments of suffering in no way equates to the eternal suffering those who simply do not believe in him will experience. It seems that those going to hell to suffer for eternity are making a far bigger sacrifice than Jesus ever did. There are even children that go through more suffering than Jesus did for far longer and they've never sinned.

The "God" that created all, is the beginning and the end...comes "down" and subjects Himself to the likeness of His creation, dies the death of a sinner (Whitney, this would answer your question..."The wages of sin is death" and not hell.  Hell can be discussed elsewhere if you like.) without having any sin in Him.  Sin was placed on Him, that through His death, though He had no sin, would pay the debt (death) for ALL who believe.  He chose to do this for His created.  No person with the foreknowledge of cancer and whatever else would choose to die in such a manner.  I dare say, that, yes, there are some that may've suffered more pain and for longer, but no person suffered that pain and had "the weight of the world" put on him/her.  Everyone that has suffered has suffered to their own end.  The beauty of God coming down is that He didn't need to.  His capacity to love (like that one Whitney?    ) is such that it was in His nature to do so.  The sacrifice is that He did so willingly.  And in doing so, He has subjected Himself to the image of His creation...forever human and no longer Spirit or whatever God's form is/was prior.

God, the author of the Law (that condemns the sinner to death) and Judge...Made the Law, Enforces the Law, and HIMSELF pays the price the Law demands in order that ALL can be saved.

[Kylyssa]

"The wages of sin is death" and not hell.

Yes, we must not forget that no matter how good you are, Christians believe you deserve Hell if you don't worship their God and that they deserve Heaven no matter what bad things they do.  They find a murderer pedophile who is a Christian a more worthy human being than a person who has never hurt anyone and isn't Christian.  According to the rules of their religion Hitler is in Heaven and Ghandi is in Hell.

[Asmodean]

Would you agree that this movie features a spellbinding performance from Jim Caviezel?

I like movies about old times and old things and preferably epic battles, but that one was a huge disappointment. The acting was decent enough though.

Still, not a top 100 movie in my book. 3/10, maybe a very weak 4.

[hingedro]

"The wages of sin is death" and not hell.

Yes, we must not forget that no matter how good you are, Christians believe you deserve Hell if you don't worship their God and that they deserve Heaven no matter what bad things they do.  They find a murderer pedophile who is a Christian a more worthy human being than a person who has never hurt anyone and isn't Christian.  According to the rules of their religion Hitler is in Heaven and Ghandi is in Hell.

Er.. not really.

[Davin]

I do wonder, how is it a sacrifice when, in the end, he lost nothing?  He knew how the story was going to end - with him going back to where he came from with more accolades than when he left.  Even if you count his supposed thirty years on earth (including the crucifixion) as part of the 'sacrifice',  it still means nothing in that light.  The story doesn't even pass muster as decent fiction, much less the tale of a deity supposedly come to earth.

That did get me to think about how his last few moments of suffering in no way equates to the eternal suffering those who simply do not believe in him will experience. It seems that those going to hell to suffer for eternity are making a far bigger sacrifice than Jesus ever did. There are even children that go through more suffering than Jesus did for far longer and they've never sinned.

The "God" that created all, is the beginning and the end...comes "down" and subjects Himself to the likeness of His creation, dies the death of a sinner (Whitney, this would answer your question..."The wages of sin is death" and not hell.  Hell can be discussed elsewhere if you like.) without having any sin in Him.  Sin was placed on Him, that through His death, though He had no sin, would pay the debt (death) for ALL who believe.  He chose to do this for His created.  No person with the foreknowledge of cancer and whatever else would choose to die in such a manner.  I dare say, that, yes, there are some that may've suffered more pain and for longer, but no person suffered that pain and had "the weight of the world" put on him/her.  Everyone that has suffered has suffered to their own end.  The beauty of God coming down is that He didn't need to.  His capacity to love (like that one Whitney?    ) is such that it was in His nature to do so.  The sacrifice is that He did so willingly.  And in doing so, He has subjected Himself to the image of His creation...forever human and no longer Spirit or whatever God's form is/was prior.

God, the author of the Law (that condemns the sinner to death) and Judge...Made the Law, Enforces the Law, and HIMSELF pays the price the Law demands in order that ALL can be saved.

Aye, so in relation to the millions of other people that suffered a great deal more for a great deal longer, the "sacrifice" of Jesus really isn't that big of a deal.

This thing you said doesn't really make much sense: "[...]HIMSELF pays the price the Law demands[...]" I did not know that Christians believed Jesus/god was going to hell to suffer for all eternity.

Then another thing: ""The wages of sin is death" and not hell." then what's the big deal, we're all going to die and therefore pay the price of sin, so Jesus made his "sacrifice" for no reason.

[AnimatedDirt]

"The wages of sin is death" and not hell.

Yes, we must not forget that no matter how good you are, Christians believe you deserve Hell if you don't worship their God and that they deserve Heaven no matter what bad things they do.  They find a murderer pedophile who is a Christian a more worthy human being than a person who has never hurt anyone and isn't Christian.  According to the rules of their religion Hitler is in Heaven and Ghandi is in Hell.

If you meet a Christian that promotes this, you have just met someone that doesn't understand the Gospel.  Every single person, Christian, Atheist and all categories of human deserve hell (and by hell, I mean ultimately death.)  Worship cannot be given until one believes, so to worship God is useless.  A murderer and/or pedophile (the worst person you can think of), if they are truly sorry and repent of their sin, CAN AND WILL be saved.  There is no sin too great that God cannot forgive, save for ignoring God.  The only sin God cannot forgive is thinking oneself is above God and thus ignoring.

The Gospel is that God has done EVERYTHING needed for you and I to gain salvation.  There's nothing you can DO to obtain it.  You simply believe and submit that God is, and that apart from Him the only thing left is death and nonexistence.  Does this change your life?  It sure does.  It is a gift.

[AnimatedDirt]

This thing you said doesn't really make much sense: "[...]HIMSELF pays the price the Law demands[...]" I did not know that Christians believed Jesus/god was going to hell to suffer for all eternity.

I'm of the school of thought that there is a hell, a burning, but that it is not a perpetual burning.  One will burn until dead.  Christ died.  Full stop.  He died the death of a sinner...apart from God.  Sin (all sin) was laid on Him.  That was the "weight of the world".  He died.  God the Father, raised Him up.  Likewise, in Him, we too will be raised up.

Then another thing: ""The wages of sin is death" and not hell." then what's the big deal, we're all going to die and therefore pay the price of sin, so Jesus made his "sacrifice" for no reason.

Yes, all will certainly pay the price of sin.  Do you WANT an afterlife?  Being IN Christ makes all the difference.  The question then is, do you want to pay yourself, or claim Christ's death as your own payment and live, "even though you die."?

[Asmodean]

Do you WANT an afterlife?

Well, I, for one, have never really wanted THIS life, not to mention the after-one... Guess I'm in the right worldview then  

[AnimatedDirt]

Do you WANT an afterlife?

Well, I, for one, have never really wanted THIS life, not to mention the after-one... Guess I'm in the right worldview then  

You sure are.  If the choice really does exist, the choice has been made.

[Davin]

This thing you said doesn't really make much sense: "[...]HIMSELF pays the price the Law demands[...]" I did not know that Christians believed Jesus/god was going to hell to suffer for all eternity.

I'm of the school of thought that there is a hell, a burning, but that it is not a perpetual burning.  One will burn until dead.  Christ died.  Full stop.  He died the death of a sinner...apart from God.  Sin (all sin) was laid on Him.  That was the "weight of the world".  He died.  God the Father, raised Him up.  Likewise, in Him, we too will be raised up.

That doesn't sound so bad.

Then another thing: ""The wages of sin is death" and not hell." then what's the big deal, we're all going to die and therefore pay the price of sin, so Jesus made his "sacrifice" for no reason.

Yes, all will certainly pay the price of sin.

So Jesus suffering a little bit doesn't even matter.

Do you WANT an afterlife?

Doesn't matter what I might want reality to be, reality is what it is no matter what I want it to be. So no, I do not want an afterlife and more than I don't want there to be an after life... in that I want neither an afterlife or the lack thereof.

Being IN Christ makes all the difference.  The question then is, do you want to pay yourself, or claim Christ's death as your own payment and live, "even though you die."?

Why would I make someone else pay for me? That sounds very selfish, I'd rather pay for my own stuff. If all I have to do is go through what Jesus went through to pay for whatever it is that you think I must pay for, then I'm all for it.

[hismikeness]

Would you agree that this movie features a spellbinding performance from Jim Caviezel?

I'll admit, I saw it in the theater and I liked it. I don't much care for it now, but at the time, I thought it was pretty moving. I did, however, upon walking out of the theater and seeing all the people in line for the next showing, say quite loudly "He dies at the end!" It got a few good laughs.

Caviezel's performance was good. Where the heck did that guy go? IMDB only has him in 6 movies since starring in the 55th all time grossing movie worldwide? Seems weird.

[McQ]

Then another thing: ""The wages of sin is death" and not hell." then what's the big deal, we're all going to die and therefore pay the price of sin, so Jesus made his "sacrifice" for no reason.

Point of clarification. This passage means that "death" is eternal separation from god. I had that pounded into my brain over and over growing up. In this case, they know everyone will die, but the wages of sin is eternal separation from the big guy.

Either way, it's not a very nice way to scare people into believing in god.


And now we return you back to your movie. How about the "Passion of the Christ in 3D"? There's a thought.

[Kylyssa]

Every single person, Christian, Atheist and all categories of human deserve hell (and by hell, I mean ultimately death.)

Is this why some Christians have a problem with empathy and view it as a bad thing?  How does believing all humans are worthless pieces of shit affect your feelings toward humans?  Do you still feel compassion for human beings?