How do we know we know?

[idiotsavant]

...this current argument isn't about whether emotions and volition are separate, it's whether every single decision made is for the purpose of fulfilling an emotional need or desire....  I don't think that your argument relies on them not being separate...

I agree, but your statement

...emotions are a state of consciousness separate from making decisions.

implied separate = unrelated.  Although my ears and eyes are distinctly different, and are on separate parts of my head, they work together.

There is no explanation for why people don't like the taste of things or why people like the taste of things.

Sounds like an assumption to me.

You accuse me of

...trying to destroy the meaning of a word...

when I simply chose from a list of commonly accepted definitions you offered.  ?

And speaking of word meanings:

I define "like" in this context as a preference.

How about we both use commonly accepted definitions?

I think you’re going to have to stretch your meaning of emotion so thin that it doesn't even mean very much...

Let’s cross that bridge if we get to it....
e·mo·tion n.
1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and states of consciousness.
2. any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.
[1570â€"80; appar. < MF esmotion, derived on the model of movoir: motion, from esmovoir to set in motion, move the feelings < VL *exmov"re, for L "mov"re; see E-, MOVE, MOTION]

Does “I enJOY cream cheese” stretch this definition?

Peace - I/s

[Davin]

...this current argument isn't about whether emotions and volition are separate, it's whether every single decision made is for the purpose of fulfilling an emotional need or desire....  I don't think that your argument relies on them not being separate...

I agree, but your statement

...emotions are a state of consciousness separate from making decisions.

implied separate = unrelated.

I'm not responsible for you assuming I meant something different than what I said.

Although my ears and eyes are distinctly different, and are on separate parts of my head, they work together.

But eyes and ears are organs that relay senses, and quite different senses. You can't say that you hear things because you see them or that you see things because you hear them. This is not a good comparison for your argument. A better comparison would be that eyes and the visual cortex are separate, but the visual cortex relies on the eyes to see (while not necessarily required for relaying images to the brain, but for relaying images of the world to the brain).

There is no explanation for why people don't like the taste of things or why people like the taste of things.

Sounds like an assumption to me.

Are you using some kind of text to voice software? I'm trying to be rude here, but this is like your example of "enJOY," in that you're using the colloquial definition of "enjoy" then comparing that to scientific definition of emotions. I could easily do the same for your use of "sounds like" when speaking about something that doesn't make a sound.

You accuse me of

...trying to destroy the meaning of a word...

when I simply chose from a list of commonly accepted definitions you offered.  ?

How then, do you mark something off as different, without making it a separate distinct thing? If it can't be separated then it can't be different now can it?

And speaking of word meanings:

I define "like" in this context as a preference.

How about we both use commonly accepted definitions?

My definition is accepted as a colloquial definition.

I think you’re going to have to stretch your meaning of emotion so thin that it doesn't even mean very much...

Let’s cross that bridge if we get to it....
e·mo·tion n.
1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and states of consciousness.
2. any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.
[1570â€"80; appar. < MF esmotion, derived on the model of movoir: motion, from esmovoir to set in motion, move the feelings < VL *exmov"re, for L "mov"re; see E-, MOVE, MOTION]

Does “I enJOY cream cheese” stretch this definition?

Maybe not for you, maybe you do get some joy from eating something. But just because you do, doesn't mean everyone else must. The point I'm making isn't that there are no decisions made for the sake of an emotion, it's that not all decisions are made for the sake of an emotion. If you providing your testimony that you do things for the sake of emotions is evidence that every decision ever made was for the sake of emotions, then my testimony that I make several decisions without any thing to do with emotions is equally valid to show that not all decisions are made for the sake of emotions.

Your concept that every decision made is to fulfill some kind of emotional need or desire must cover the following decisions:
Why people choose to write with their left hand instead of their right hand or vice versa.
Why people choose to cross their legs.
Why people use the mouse to copy and paste instead of the keyboard.
Why people choose to put socks on the left foot first or the right foot first.

Not just in one instance where you have some kind of emotional need to put a sock on the left foot first, but why everyone must have some kind of emotional need or desire behind it.

[idiotsavant]

Davin, please tell me again why don’t  you like / prefer cream cheese.

[Davin]

Davin, please tell me again why don’t  you like / prefer cream cheese.

It tastes bad.

idiotsavant, please explain why these choices must be for an emotional need or desire and not for any other reason:
Why people choose to write with their left hand instead of their right hand or vice versa.
Why people choose to cross their legs.
Why people use the mouse to copy and paste instead of the keyboard or vice versa.
Why people choose to put socks on the left foot first or the right foot first.

[Myoslnev]

Interestingly enough, there is probably strong evidence for the preferences of some people towards cream cheese, and others toward, say... yogurt. When I do zazen, I just sit. In this practice, you can use anything as your focus, but if you simply focus on your breath, then you are doing zazen.

In focusing on my breath, all there is, is my breath. In eating, all there is, is my eating. A person can become anxious, and try to Isolate some sort of data, or experience, but in doing that, all these cravings and delusions and desires are created... which is the turning away from the breath.

To put it simply, if you want to notice breath, notice breath. But do not try to "capture" or "isolate" the breath. In trying to do that, you have already turned away from the noticing... turned away from the breath. And when you notice your breath, then the breath is all there is.

 

[idiotsavant]

It tastes bad.

It occurs to me that ultimately we humans avoid bad tasting food for self preservation - aka fear of death....

Peace - I/s

[Asmodean]

It tastes bad.

It occurs to me that ultimately we humans avoid bad tasting food for self preservation - aka fear of death....

Peace - I/s

Taste is subjective. Most vile-tasting things won't kill you and some good tasting ones will.

[idiotsavant]

Taste is subjective. Most vile-tasting things won't kill you and some good tasting ones will.

Agreed.  Most people would say they enjoy the food they like, and don’t enjoy foods they don’t like.  But not Davin.  He doesn’t enjoy food.  He must eat only for survival...

Peace - I/s

[pinkocommie]

Taste is subjective. Most vile-tasting things won't kill you and some good tasting ones will.

Agreed.  Most people would say they enjoy the food they like, and don’t enjoy foods they don’t like.  But not Davin.  He doesn’t enjoy food.  He must eat only for survival...

Peace - I/s

Why won't you answer the rest of Davin's questions?  Being snarky isn't an argument.

[idiotsavant]

Why won't you answer the rest of Davin's questions? Being snarky isn't an argument.

I plan to answer, but I need K.I.S.S., so we go slow...

Peace - I/s

[Davin]

It occurs to me that ultimately we humans avoid bad tasting food for self preservation - aka fear of death....

Things occurring to you is not what a good argument makes.

Taste is subjective. Most vile-tasting things won't kill you and some good tasting ones will.

Agreed.  Most people would say they enjoy the food they like, and don’t enjoy foods they don’t like.  But not Davin.  He doesn’t enjoy food.  He must eat only for survival...

Once again I will explain my position: People don't make every single decision for an emotional need or desire. If I have to restate this and continue to correct your assumptions, then I'm done with this discussion.

Why won't you answer the rest of Davin's questions? Being snarky isn't an argument.

I plan to answer, but I need K.I.S.S., so we go slow...

I'll go as slow as you need.

[wildfire_emissary]

1. All human decisions are emotional events.
2. All decisions to look at a dropped booger are human decisions.
3. Ergo, all decisions to look at a dropped booger are emotional events.

I don't know about you guys but boogers make me feel sad and lonely.

[Tank]

1. All human decisions are emotional events.
2. All decisions to look at a dropped booger are human decisions.
3. Ergo, all decisions to look at a dropped booger are emotional events.

I don't know about you guys but boogers make me feel sad and lonely.

What is a booger?

[JillSwift]

What is a booger?

Nose goblin.
Snot.
Nasal discharge.
Sinus mucus.
Rain of the sneeze cloud.
Finger flick ammunition.
 

[Tank]

What is a booger?

Nose goblin.
Snot.
Nasal discharge.
Sinus mucus.
Rain of the sneeze cloud.
Finger flick ammunition.