Socialist School Speech?

[Ultima22689]

* pulls on collar*

I'm sensing some abrasiveness and anger in here.

[andrewclunn]

I'm assuming you are a theist of some sort as I've seen very few atheists against altruism.  You keep suggesting altruism is bad.  Altruism is a subset of empathy.  Empathy (not the Bible or the Koran) is the origin of morality.  Altruism is a good thing for our species.  It's basically helping your fellow man.  I don't see why people are so against thinking of how their actions might impact others.

No, I'm an Objectivist.  We are Atheists who found morality in the individual pursuit of happiness, and ethics based on the principles of self-ownership and the preservation of individual rights.

I don't see any changes in the lesson plans that are online.  Just like the health care reform paperwork didn't change to get rid of a section on death panels once the neo-cons got freaked, the lesson plans didn't change.  Or was there some subliminal message in the "originals" perhaps in white letters on white?

You had an impression of what the lesson plans included and upon re-examination of the plans their wording doesn't match your impression.  It happens to everyone.  You get all emotional about something and words take on different meanings.  Then you paraphrase them in your memory, tinged with those emotions.  Later, when you are cool headed, you no longer interpret the words the same way.  The words haven't changed, you have.

http://www.kxmb.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=432647

[rlrose328]

Might this thread have a bit of a left-leaning tinge to it?  I would have an issue with my child being taught what morality is and that altruism is a virtue by the President, and I would think that those of the political left would have a problem with their children being taught political messages from President Reagan.  As to Obama indoctrinating kids, I think this video says everything that I'd want to say.

(youtube video deleted)

The message of the video was "stay in school, work hard, etc." support, not socialist indoctrination.  Perhaps this thread is a little left leaning... it's certainly not "KILL THE PRESIDENT" leaning, like most of the conservative/Republican sites I've visited.  I don't remember ever ONCE staying that Bush deserved to die or support any disruptive activites at townhall meetings, not personally nor the hundreds of people that I know.  The phenomenon right now is that the conservatives/Repubs hate Obama because of who and what he is AND who and what he isn't.  He could do everything they want him to do and they'd still hate him because he's Obama and not XXX (R).

And that video was not about produced by Obama or his camp.  If you think that is about him directly indoctrinating kids, then you aren't paying attention.  I remember the Reagan speech.  I voted for Reagan for goodness sake.  His speech was VERY political, but back then, that was okay.  The country wasn't nearly as politicized as it is now, not nearly as divided.  

There were people who kept their kids out of school because of the speech and I find that very sad.  They're teaching their kids a very dangerous lesson.

[curiosityandthecat]

[youtube:3cs7an5b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB-irpkAxK8[/youtube:3cs7an5b]

Skip to 3:50.

[/thread]

[rlrose328]

Here is a thought... they (the christian conservatives and republicans and those that overlap) get all up in arms with the Democrat (and not even a liberal Dem at that) giving a rah rah speech to school kids, calling it socialist, but think nothing of forcing their Christian religion on the kids with organized prayer and bible study.  Or organizing an off-grounds ministry during the school day and asking that the school suspend any formal learning activities while the kids are at said ministry.

There's just something wrong with this country... SERIOUSLY wrong.  I'm not saying people don't have the right to worship their chosen deity... not at all.  Never said that, never will.  But they do NOT have the right to special treatment BECAUSE they worship a god and they shouldn't have the right to make laws based on their chosen god's book of mythology.

And I don't see anything wrong with the leader of the free world telling the kids in his own country that staying in school, setting goals, and not doing drugs is a bad thing.  I will NEVER think that.  WERE he to talk about the health care issues or the war, I'd have a problem... but he wasn't.

[iNow]

...even though you are the one who specifically asked me to give my reasoning even if I could not directly site the lesson plan!

Which, oddly enough, you still have not done.

[andrewclunn]

Maybe I should remind you of how you started this thread.

If it were Bush, they'd be bending over backwards to keep the liberals and Dems from stomping around with pitchforks.  But let it be Obama... and a quote in there from someone saying she's scared for the way our country is right now.  I'll be she's not even half as scared as I am... her and her ilk are out to destroy the freedoms we all enjoy.

[andrewclunn]

...even though you are the one who specifically asked me to give my reasoning even if I could not directly site the lesson plan!

Which, oddly enough, you still have not done.

Like I said.  Look up Objectivism.  See how we feel about altruism, and you'll understand.

[iNow]

Now you're just being a troll.

[rlrose328]

HEre is the original lesson plan, which took me just 3 minutes to find.

Original Obama Speech Lesson Plan

[rlrose328]

Maybe I should remind you of how you started this thread.

If it were Bush, they'd be bending over backwards to keep the liberals and Dems from stomping around with pitchforks.  But let it be Obama... and a quote in there from someone saying she's scared for the way our country is right now.  I'll be she's not even half as scared as I am... her and her ilk are out to destroy the freedoms we all enjoy.

And your point is?

[andrewclunn]

HEre is the original lesson plan, which took me just 3 minutes to find.

Original Obama Speech Lesson Plan

Thank you.  These are the lines I took issue with:

- "Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president." (And that is the end of the sentence.
- "Interview and share their goals with one another to create a supportive community."

[andrewclunn]

Maybe I should remind you of how you started this thread.

If it were Bush, they'd be bending over backwards to keep the liberals and Dems from stomping around with pitchforks.  But let it be Obama... and a quote in there from someone saying she's scared for the way our country is right now.  I'll be she's not even half as scared as I am... her and her ilk are out to destroy the freedoms we all enjoy.

And your point is?

That you need to get over your false dichotomy.  Not all "right-leaning" or even conservative people are religious.  And since when is a parent deciding what their child should and should not be exposed to and *SHOCK* disagreeing with the president an infringement on your rights?  Get over yourself.

[rlrose328]

HEre is the original lesson plan, which took me just 3 minutes to find.

Original Obama Speech Lesson Plan

Thank you.  These are the lines I took issue with:

- "Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president." (And that is the end of the sentence.
- "Interview and share their goals with one another to create a supportive community."

Honestly... I do not understand WHY you have a problem with that.  Honestly, I don't.  I'm not socialist.  I'm not libertarian.  I'm an independent leaning Democrat.  Every one of us should be helping the president in some fashion... researching our issues with policy or supporting those policies with which we agree, contacting our congressmen when we have an issue with something being discussed at that level, reforming laws that violate the constitution, etc.  Those are not socialist ideals.  They are democratic.  Regardless, kids should be encouraged to become involved with their society.  For the youngest grades, it's the school.  For the middle grades, it's the local community.  For HSers, it's the state and country.

And interviewing and sharing their golas with one anotehr to create a supportive community?  Why on earth do you or ANYONE have a problem with that?  It makes no sense to me.  Should we be encouraging children to think only of themselves and ignore the community at large when it takes an entire community to make a successful society?

I'm baffled.

[andrewclunn]

HEre is the original lesson plan, which took me just 3 minutes to find.

Original Obama Speech Lesson Plan

Thank you.  These are the lines I took issue with:

- "Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president." (And that is the end of the sentence.
- "Interview and share their goals with one another to create a supportive community."

Honestly... I do not understand WHY you have a problem with that.  Honestly, I don't.  I'm not socialist.  I'm not libertarian.  I'm an independent leaning Democrat.  Every one of us should be helping the president in some fashion... researching our issues with policy or supporting those policies with which we agree, contacting our congressmen when we have an issue with something being discussed at that level, reforming laws that violate the constitution, etc.  Those are not socialist ideals.  They are democratic.  Regardless, kids should be encouraged to become involved with their society.  For the youngest grades, it's the school.  For the middle grades, it's the local community.  For HSers, it's the state and country.

And interviewing and sharing their golas with one anotehr to create a supportive community?  Why on earth do you or ANYONE have a problem with that?  It makes no sense to me.  Should we be encouraging children to think only of themselves and ignore the community at large when it takes an entire community to make a successful society?

I'm baffled.

I was stating (As I have been, consistently throughout) that when seeing that lesson plan, that parents had a right to want to see the text of the speech before having their child hear it.  I am also saying that the first line there smacks of nationalism, while the second is fairly clearly (in my mind) progressive community based language.  The implications not being that the lesson plan on it's own may have been bad, but that it could be an indication of what the speech would be.  So parents demanded to see transcript first, the white house took a few days (maybe to ensure that the speech wouldn't offend anyone's views or ideologies) and the resulting Presidential address to our kids was very inspiring and well done.  The problem is that the media sensationalized it (as it always does) and you bought it hook line and sinker, that anyone who wanted to see the text of the speech first must be a right-wing wacko out to destroy your freedom.