What do atheists claim to know nothing about?

[Squid]

Do you suffer any discrimination in law so that for example you cannot be accepted in government positions if you are an atheist?

I like to know about the laws which explicitly disqualify atheists from government offices.

Texas Constitution Section 1 Article 4:

Sec. 4.  RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

[Heretical Rants]

Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

WTF?

Seriously?

[Yrreg]

The way I see it, your kind of not believing in God is not the same as not believing in Santa.


Because you don't give any attention to Santa, but you give attention of a kind to God.

You write negatively against God and people who believe in  God.


For example, you make up so many arguments against the existence of God but not against Santa, and you call God names which believers in God are not happy about, because for them God is their father in heaven.



Yrreg

[Tanker]

The way I see it, your kind of not believing in God is not the same as not believing in Santa.


Because you don't give any attention to Santa, but you give attention of a kind to God.

You write negatively against God and people who believe in  God.


For example, you make up so many arguments against the existence of God but not against Santa, and you call God names which believers in God are not happy about, because for them God is their father in heaven.



Yrreg

1.Nobody is trying to force me to believe in santa.
2. belief in santa is given up as a child so it has little impact on adult life.
3.no one is making pro-santa legislation.
4.no one (except mabye kids) discriminates against those who don't belive in santa
5.Everyone agrees santa is a fairytale. (not the real life saint Nicholas) We just think the bible is too.
6. Most of the anti god arguments work for santa but since no one over the age of 10 claims santa is real they aren't needed.
7.most Atheist DON'T "write negatively against God and people who believe in  God' they write negatively about any and all ignorance. Especially when that ignorance has a direct impact on our lives.
8.theists often call atheist names or make fun of common atheist beliefs ie; EVILution. Say I'm going to hell or "I hope you have fun in hell", even if i don't belive in hell, it is a disgusting thing to tell someone. Especially when they are an otherwise upright and moral person. So pot...kettle...black.
9. there is a rediculous amount of, very wrong, anti atheist propaganda ie; we worship the devil, we just want to sin, we eat babies (yes thats real), ect. Many Atheists try to corect these misconception though, teaching, discussing, good example, and in America the 1st ammendment right of free speach (to include writing).


(If any one else has more plesae feel free to add it's 4:30am and I have yet to sleep so I'm done for now.)

Mabye you should adress some of your original issues and our resonses rather then starting new ones such as this. Many people have taken the time to respond to you, it would be nice if you showed the same curtesy.

[curiosityandthecat]

The way I see it, your kind of not believing in God is not the same as not believing in Santa.


Because you don't give any attention to Santa, but you give attention of a kind to God.

You write negatively against God and people who believe in  God.


For example, you make up so many arguments against the existence of God but not against Santa, and you call God names which believers in God are not happy about, because for them God is their father in heaven.



Yrreg

There, I made the font size relative to the importance of what you're saying. I hope this helps.

[PipeBox]

People eventually stop believing in Santa, either because they figure it out, or because they're told and accept it.

I give attention to the Christian God in particular because people actively believe in it, right now, and these people vote based on what some bronze age men wrote about how this god would respond to some things.  When people start telling me I can't hold office because I don't believe in Santa, I'll call them out too.

Imagine, Yrreg, for just a moment, that the majority of people around you believe in Santa.  Specifically, they believe that they will one day be gifted whatever they want in accordance to their works on the condition they already have faith.  They believe that although they will die without witnessing anything but the most subtle signs of Santa, they will be brought back to life on the day of Santa's choosing to receive their gifts.  They believe that not believing in Santa is a grievous affront to Santa which will not be forgiven, because although Santa is merciful, it is an act of the most proud, brazen, foolish individuals, and Santa will not forgive such individuals for this.  Those people will, it is believed, will remain dead, giftless for all time.  These people vote and try to align the law onto what they believe Santa requires of all individuals.  Now, how do you think these people would react to you if you didn't believe in Santa?  That's the world we live in.

Let's say it is a requirement that you believe in some gift-giving being to get into public office.  Do you want to lie to get into office?  Do you want to lie to your friends and family and just go through the motions of making a wish list with them every Sunday?  You really do see no evidence for Santa.  Is that the defining attribute of trust, of morality, of your worth as a person?  People who don't believe in Santa are the least trusted minority, are considered amoral because they don't believe they have to answer to Santa for gifts or a dirt nap, and they are evaluated as being blind to the reality of Santa.  It's considered an insult just to admit this sort of thing: if you don't believe in Santa, you should keep quiet about it.  If you have the temerity to admit you don't believe, or are brazen enough to expound your reasons for not believing, you are an instant pariah.  Some people tell you that you're angry at Santa, some people tell you that you really do believe in Santa, some people tell you that you should reference the carols more thoroughly.  They remind you, without trying sometimes, that you live in a society where Santa Clause is aways coming to town.  They consider it unnecessary and strange that you like to keep company that doesn't believe in Santa.  They consider it strange that you've read books about why Santa doesn't make sense.  A few of them wander onto one of the few internet forums you frequent to tell you that you're wrong, or possibly just to show you that believers in Santa are OK people.  You know that, though, because most of your friends believe in Santa.  And then you finally get one guy on a forum who says that you're mistaken, and that he expects to be banned because he knows you won't listen to him speak.  He claims you cannot handle the truth that Santa exists.  He indicates in his phrasing he doesn't think there's any problem with society's attitude towards you.  He indicates in his phrasing that you are strangely, overly negative towards Santa.  He thinks it is suspicious you relegate more attention to Santa than to the Tooth Fairy, who everyone knows by the age of 10 doesn't exist.  Par for the course.  

I'll tell you anytime in full honesty why I do not believe in gods.  It is (or should be) obvious why I want your beliefs out of the law and out of society's appraisal of me.  It is obvious that I come to this forum for the previous two sentences, as well as to commune with like-minded individuals.  I assure you, I'm not isolating myself from the market of beliefs, I have plenty of exposure to it elsewhere.  Now, what do you want of me?

[Yrreg]

I will come back later to the title of this thread, "What do atheists claim to know nothing about."


Right now I like to examine the animosity between atheists and theists, and see whether they can both be objective about their reasons for being hostile to each other.


From all appearances when I read the posts in web forums from atheists on God and theists in  particular Christians, even though they deny it, they do if I may use the word, hate God and Christians.

On the other hand, in the US the vast majority of Americans hold atheists to be the most distrusted minority in their country.


Atheists claim that they are being forced to believe and do or not do things which they as atheists do not want to.

On the other part the vast majority of Americans must have reasons to hold atheists to be the most distrusted minority in their country.


In effect, there are grievances from each side against the other.

What do you suggest could be ways and means for both atheists and the rest of the US population to adopt in order that they can be freed of their mutual animosity or hostility.


Let us start with words, what words from each side are said that are annoying to say the least to the other side, and why do they each side say the words they do say about and toward the other side.

Do you think that a good public relations firm can be of help to both sides for them to reconcile, because they are both Americans who are all and each after life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, wherefore it is to their greatest advantage all and each of them to live in harmony with the other.



Yrreg

[Yrreg]

Okay, at the same time that I am interested in the mutual animosity between atheists and the vast majority of people in the US, let me resume the topic of this thread, "What do atheists claim to know nothing about."

I have this idea about what I call the whole totality of existence, which whole totality of existence includes the physical universe as one of its components.


Do you atheists know about the whole totality of existence?




Yrreg

[skurry]

And I will return to my point. You seem confused, atheists by definition is just a lack of belief.Atheist don't mutually believe in how the universe began. If you would like to understand what the scientific community thinks, go to a science forum.

And I find the term "mutual animosity" offensive. Atheists aren't outcasts or living on the fringe of society. A vast majority of atheists are productive members of society.

You don't seem to be getting anywhere with your questions or thoughts, I smell a troll.

[Yrreg]

I am curious, according to what I have just read, atheists just have no belief in god(s), what do you understand by god(s) which you don't believe in?

Right....

A theist is someone who believes in a god.  An atheist is someone who does not believe in a god.

God is generally understood to be a being/entity which created all that exists.

There are atheistic religions...such as some forms of Buddhism...however, most self-identified atheists do not follow a religion.

There are atheistic religions...such as some forms of Buddhism...however, most self-identified atheists do not follow a religion. -- Whitney

I think that is not exactly the fact.

For Westerners who converted to Buddhism they might say that Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

But for Easterners whose religion has been traditionally Buddhism, the adherents of this religion not only believe in god(s), they pray to them for help.

And their most important god is the Buddha himself.

Go to Thailand and Burma, and see that Buddhists there are praying to Buddha and other entities who can help them.



Yrreg

[curiosityandthecat]

You show complete and willful ignorance regarding the nature of atheistic worldviews, how atheists see theists, and the nature of worship, especially in eastern thought. Having said that, you are correct that Americans are especially hostile toward atheists, moreso than any other minority. Even immediately after 9/11, Americans still viewed atheists as the most threatening group.

Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority?

I smell a troll.

You win two internets, sir.

[Yrreg]

About the prohibition of trolling, if I may, I think that is not needed because it can be a way of getting people banned here or gagged here on the ground of trolling.

In the old Internet Infidels Discussion Board (old because there is a new one after the departure in protest of a big number of posters and persons in authority there) there was a very strict injunction against even just mentioning that someone is a troll or anything equivalent to such an accusation.

If anyone has anything against a fellow poster, he should report him to the supervisorial personnel, but no one is allowed to use the label of troll or its equivalent on any other.


The same can be said about the accusation of preaching.

For my own part there is preaching if a poster is conspicuously trying to convert people to a religion of which he is an adherent, for example, he says: "Accept Buddha or Mohammad or Jesus or Joseph Smith as your teacher."

Otherwise from my own part we are all inclined to try to make others understand what we are talking about and see things the way we see them.

If that is preaching then I don't think anyone will ever want to talk about anything to another listening human being and thus get penalized for preaching.



Yrreg

[curiosityandthecat]

[Tanker]

you have now won all the internets for 1 week.

[Yrreg]

Sec. 4. RELIGIOUS TESTS. No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

WTF?

Seriously?

All such laws should be abrogated.

How? One possibility, get to the supreme court of the whole US to declare it unconstitutional.

The normal way in a democracy of the US type is to get congress to abroagate the law, or enact a new one where even people who are explicitly denying the existence of a supreme being are not thereby disqualified from government positions.


How do you get congress to change a law, in a democracy where the vast majority of people are of the heart and mind that men and women who don't believe in a supreme being cannot be trusted to hold anything to be inviolable?



Yrreg