Catholics and the supernatural

[zorkan]

If somebody could prove the supernatural they would be overnight celebrities.
Newspapers would run the scoop of all time.
The only thing interesting about the supernatural is that it's still to be proved, and I'm still waiting.

I was a catholic only because of one side of my family and I was brainwashed.
Had I arrived into any other religion I would likewise have been mind altered.
It's likely that all religions originally worked off mind altering drugs.

I'll let you describe how bread and wine is changed into body and blood.
It's not up to me to prove that god exists.
It's up to theists or deists to do that, and they can't.
The bible is myth built on earlier myth, then altered when interpreted and translated.
Eventually it becomes irreversibly mutated.

As I was not there to witness any of the events from 2000 years ago, why should I believe a single word of it?
Religion can only work on faith because it is not historical fact.
They are after your money and your blood.
Who knows how many people have been killed by Christianity alone?
My own estimate is somewhere between 50 and 100 million.

[Icarus]

That's a conservative estimate Zorkan. Religious wars along with mythical beliefs about health care, foods and potions have accounted for a whole bunch of fatal results. Witch trials, executions of blasphemers, and all that sort of thing have washed away some of the fringe practitioners as well. Then, of course, there was and is,the political part of wiping out "wrong Believers".  Romans versus Christians come to mind.....and then Constantine decided to use religion to his and the Empires benefit.

[zorkan]

I accept that we will never know the number of unnecessary deaths that can be linked to Christianity.
The Taiping revolt in China alone can be traced back to a leader who proclaimed himself the younger brother of Jesus Christ.
The death toll is unknown but 30 million is mentioned. Could be as high as 100 million.

A few other examples
"The Thirty Years' War was initially a religious conflict between Catholics and Protestants in the Holy Roman Empire, causing an estimated 4.5 to 8 million deaths"

Aztecs wiped out by Spanish invaders. Possibly 20 million deaths.

Crusades. Up to 9 million deaths.

English Civil War led to 200,000 deaths.
"King's perceived sympathy for Catholicism, which conflicted with the Puritan desire for religious reform, and the fear that the King's ceremonial church practices were "popish".

[GreenBlaze]

I accept that we will never know the number of unnecessary deaths that can be linked to Christianity.
The Taiping revolt in China alone can be traced back to a leader who proclaimed himself the younger brother of Jesus Christ.
The death toll is unknown but 30 million is mentioned. Could be as high as 100 million.

A few other examples
"The Thirty Years' War was initially a religious conflict between Catholics and Protestants in the Holy Roman Empire, causing an estimated 4.5 to 8 million deaths"

Aztecs wiped out by Spanish invaders. Possibly 20 million deaths.

Crusades. Up to 9 million deaths.

English Civil War led to 200,000 deaths.
"King's perceived sympathy for Catholicism, which conflicted with the Puritan desire for religious reform, and the fear that the King's ceremonial church practices were "popish".

Ok. I will say to see as you seem perhaps in rare moments to be seeking something spiritual. For me, I had my faith since a child. At 16 I started seeking it out a deeper experience myself. I had to commit to it for about a year and really believe before God let me see anything supernatural. I wish you well and I don't know how you will end up or what you want when you are elderly...but some people return to a faith they once had when they are older. They can be places to meet up others to when you are older socially...so I say that to anyone for older age perhaps keep that in mind and good luck.

[billy rubin]

greenblaze, i am open to spiritual experience. i have no preconceptions.

whatis it that you fnd that dstinguishes your own spirityual ex[perience from imagination?

what do you experience that is dfferent in any material way from a self-delusory belief in a theology created by ordnary human beings?

how do you establish the truth of your belief structure? to you?

[zorkan]

Ok. I will say to see as you seem perhaps in rare moments to be seeking something spiritual. For me, I had my faith since a child. At 16 I started seeking it out a deeper experience myself. I had to commit to it for about a year and really believe before God let me see anything supernatural. I wish you well and I don't know how you will end up or what you want when you are elderly...but some people return to a faith they once had when they are older. They can be places to meet up others to when you are older socially...so I say that to anyone for older age perhaps keep that in mind and good luck.

Only fact I know about people of faith is that you cannot argue with them.

I have been approached in the street by a Christian telling me I'll be burning in hell if I don't accept Jesus Christ as my saviour. According to another, my late mother as a non-believer is already burning in hell.
I might reply that on death my body will be cremated and should there be a soul, in what way will it burn?

Logic does not enter into the religious mind.