UK General Election 2024

[billy rubin]

elon musk is a stupid man with a lot of money.  his sole talent appears to be in taking credit for other people's accomplishments.

[Recusant]

Elon Musk is saying that Britain is heading for an inevitable civil war.
There was civil unrest in Plymouth last night.
The point they (the "thugs") make is that successive governments have ignored the boat crossings, making only promises.
You can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Many find they can't afford to buy homes while the illegal immigrants are housed in 4 star hotels or go to the front of the queue for social housing.
This situation has simply gone on too long.
It's summertime and more people are out on the streets to make more trouble.

I can only advise individuals if they see trouble to just walk away from it.
It's not just the far right there is also provocation from the far left as seen in Plymouth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvAQmfwyttA

"Provocation" eh? Like the "No to Nazis" signs? That's all the video showed coming from "the left." According to a report from Sky News (definitely not a leftist source) the violence was coming from just one of the sides, and it wasn't the left.

Elon Musk is a reliable source for malignant twaddle. If anybody needs more of that, he's their man.

[zorkan]

We now appear to know what fuelled the riots, and from a source few people would have known.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y38gjp4ygo

From there to social media and into the heads of thugs, anarchists or whatever you call them.
Some rioters have already received lengthy jail terms.
There was supposed to be big trouble last night, but instead peace broke out.

Governments are also to blame for saying they are going to stop the boats but do next to nothing.
Starmer and his Labour party say they are going to chase after the gangs, without describing how.
The gangs are organising the crossings way behind the lines. From E. Europe and into Asia.

I can only repeat: If you see trouble walk away and let the police deal with it.
Those found guilty of spreading false information also need to be brought to justice if crime is the result.

[zorkan]

Just when I thought it couldn't get crazier.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy8497l7dx8t

[Recusant]

Good thing there wasn't a civil war. From the look of how things developed, Tommy fucking Yaxley-whatever and his ilk would have fared rather poorly. 

[Asmodean]

"Provocation" eh? Like the "No to Nazis" signs?

Actually, yes. It depends on who you are calling Nazi.

For instance, had I been a little less me, I would probably find being lumped in with a collectivist ideology rather on the provocative side. From there, if I were even less me, punches may have been thrown.

That said, one has to wonder, if there is broad dissatisfaction with the porousness of the border of an island nation... That sounds highly fixable, does it not? You row over from France without legal entry - then back to France you row. Obviously there are logistic challenges involved, but somehow I think a nation so experienced with video surveillance would find a way if there were a will.

From where I sit, it's not even a left vs. right issue - it is, if we strain to reduce it to just two variables, probably closer to populist vs. elitist. The UK is not alone in that, as that is more or less my take on the American political climate as well (To reduce it to a first degree approximation, depending on your point of view, it's "illiterate peasants" vote Republican or "useless academics" vote Democrat, and neither side is trying to do anything other than further alienate the dissenters)

[zorkan]

Good thing there wasn't a civil war. From the look of how things developed, Tommy fucking Yaxley-whatever and his ilk would have fared rather poorly. 

Tommy Robinson (not his real name) is taking the piss out of us all.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13715003/Riddle-Tommy-Robinson-REALLY-gets-money-whip-riots-engulfing-Britain-five-star-sunlounger-despite-declared-bankrupt-squandering-fortune-gambling-drinking.html

"Because while Robinson was declared bankrupt in 2021, he continues to lead a life of luxury. In the past, financial support has come from an opaque network of right-wingers in Canada and the US as well as from online donations and through his work as a 'journalist'."

[Asmodean]

Yeah, can't effectively "cancel" a thusly-resourceful chap like that. If all else fails - you can use a foreign bank account's debit card more or less as easily as a native one's. There are nations (and transaction facilitators) out there, who will not rat you out to your creditors or even your government, as long as said entities are abroad from the perspective of those nations.

[Recusant]

"Provocation" eh? Like the "No to Nazis" signs?

Actually, yes. It depends on who you are calling Nazi.

For instance, had I been a little less me, I would probably find being lumped in with a collectivist ideology rather on the provocative side. From there, if I were even less me, punches may have been thrown.

Agreed regarding context--if there were a demonstration protesting cuts to the NHS for instance, a counter-protestor holding such a sign would provoke ridicule at best. Somebody holding a sign up as some wannabe herrenvolk march by is not directing its message at a particular individual in any case.

ETA: On the other hand, punching somebody because they're holding a "No to Nazis" sign sort of gives away the game, so to speak. 

[Asmodean]

ETA: On the other hand, punching somebody because they're holding a "No to Nazis" sign sort of gives away the game, so to speak. 

I completely agree and take it one step further to say that that diminishes whatever credibility that cause may have had in my eyes.

That's not to say, however, that the action was not provoked. Just that the person in question rose to provocation in rather a disproportionate and probably not well-considered manner.

The underlying issue here is this; if you hold a "no-nazis" sign towards me walking by, or "worse," bar my way holding one, then I may quite reasonably infer that it is me you are trying to address. And, again, in this example, "me" being a bar-fightly sort of chap who also lost two grandfathers in the Battle of Britain and himself having served multiple tours in the "oil wars," thinking he served his country and her people with honour... That "me" might choose to let an fist do some 'splaining. Not rightfully so, but there it is.

[zorkan]

Young people waving signs with reference to the Nazi's or Fascists standing in opposition makes me wonder if they know what a Nazi or Fascist actually was.
We need clearer definition.
The leader of the Reform Party and his fellow MP's are also classed in this way, which promotes dangerous politics.

[Asmodean]

Young people waving signs with reference to the Nazi's or Fascists standing in opposition makes me wonder if they know what a Nazi or Fascist actually was.

Yeah... I've been lamenting the watering-down of formerly-"heavyweight" words in recent times. "Nazi" barely means anything anymore. It can simply be someone who happens to disagree with your world view. Doesn't call for country above self, doesn't want businesses to serve political interests first, doesn't even mind the Jews, and yet... The same is broadly true of "racist." "Sexist" too, to a degree. You could blame them "cultural Feminists" for that one.

Personally, I've been called every name under the Sun since the mid-teens (2010s - not since I was a teen) but usually, it was by people who have not the slightest idea what they are talking about, so... Over time, I became completely desensitised to hearing others described so. These days, my reaction to someone saying "A is a Nazi" is more along the lines of "Yeah, yeah, whatever" rather than "Oh! What he done?"

[Old Seer]

According to Benito Mussolini fascism is corporatism, The merging/marriage of government and industry. 

[Asmodean]

Fascism is, in a way, "Collectivist Corporatism."

Nazism adds an element of nationalist... Statism, I suppose. Hmm... Is Fascism a Socialist ideology? Not initially/not really, is it..? Then that, too. Nazism has many Socialist traits.

[zorkan]

So what are atheists:
Nazi's, Fascists or Stalinists?