I want to help.

[Man-ofGod]

Why do you believe there are earthquakes?  That's been in and out of my head for the past couple days.  I see no good way to explain them.  Indeed, I'll let you know if your answer does not properly address the problem, but it might!

No need. What does evolution think the need for earthquakes are?  The earthquakes stem again from our sin and more specifically the flood.

10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up

They were broken up, large parts of the ocean floor were split apart and water underneath was released with great pressure.  The first earthquakes must of began at this very moment I would imagine.

[Man-ofGod]

I, like most here, have identified as Christian for a period of time in my life (having been brainwashed from birth), so I don't need to discuss your stories with you.  I'm happy you've found what makes you comfortable.  I have found that as well.  Have fun here, though.  :hide2:

This happens a lot for those born in the faith.  I observe this and I am cognizant when raising my own kids.  You been taught the what, when, but not the why and how.  Its a formula for failure.  And when you go off into the secular world, you learn their version of why and how.

Matt 13: 19-21

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while.

[curiosityandthecat]

The earthquakes stem again from our sin and more specifically the flood.

Okay, everybody. We can officially forget about this one. Once you get to the "earthquakes stem from our sin" argument, there's no point in even talking.

Move along, people. Nothing to see here.

[Man-ofGod]

My suggestion to you is that it is not either or. There are many scientific facts that contradict many strict readings of the bible, and I would suggest that they cannot be reasonably ignored.

Such as?


 
 

As I watched the world change, and traveled to different cultures and places over the last twenty years, I came to doubt this earlier position, and for this reason now identify as a cultural christian. I do still think that the religion is a human construction, but the basic claim of a theistic creator existing is something I do not affirm or deny. My intuition would be that one does not, but I have no substantive reason to suppose that.

I agree that religion is human construction, but a natural construction. Their is something inside people that know their is something more.  Gods word is though a divine construction to help us w/ what we once had on a daily basis and what we will have again.

I tell you this because I don't think that it is either or. If you want to be a Christian, it does not entail the rejection of science, and the acceptance of every single thing you are told by your Christian school. They are fallible mortals like everyone else. Any question you find important, you should examine the evidence, and both sides and arguments, and come to your own conclusion about what is best supported.

Agreed, should never take the truth from just what a person/teacher/pastor/rabbi/priest/pope/scientist/television etc..  says, always look it up yourself.

That is all anyone can reasonably do. If you ever get it wrong, then don't let that bother you. To err is human, we all do it. C'est la vie.

Thats why we have the word, a pilot should always trust his instruments, not his feelings when flying through a cloud.

[Man-ofGod]

So...why did god create dinosaurs before people? Were dinosaurs a mistake?

The term "dinosaur" was coined in 1842 by Sir Richard Owen and derives from Greek δεινόÏ, (deinos) "terrible, powerful, wondrous" + σαῦροÏ, (sauros) "lizard"

Did you know reptiles never stop growing until they die? Early humans lived long long ages, for animals, it was the same. Dinosaurs just various oversize lizards.

[Man-ofGod]

Why is it that people believe God has free will? I do not believe He does and do not know of a passage in the Bible that states that He has free will.God is omniscient but this does not imply He has free will.God is limited by who He is.God is love God is just He is forgiving and so forth and on and so these things limit Him from interfering in our freewill.God has given us the freedom to choose the paths we desire to take in our life and when these choices bring bad things into our lives God honors our free will by not interfering to some this seems to be considered cruel.The real cruelty would be to control us as if we were His puppets.God honors our choices when it comes to choosing our eternal destiny,we predetermine our eternal life not God and He honors our choice.He will not force us to spend eternity with Him if that's what we desire.

Love to all in Christ Jesus

Fail.

If God actually has the attributes of "God" then God will not be limited. By anything. Period.

Can God hate? Can God destroy itself? Why does God supposedly punish the people who don't desire to spend eternity with it? Does God give extra rewards to the people hurt by the bad ones it lets have free will? Does that mean Heaven is more of a paradise for some people than others, or do the ones who had to suffer extra during life get the same package as those who lived in luxury?

Srsly, did you actually think about what you typed before you hit Submit?

I do not disagree here.

[Man-ofGod]

God is love God is just He is forgiving and so forth and on and so these things limit Him from interfering in our freewill.

ROFLMAO!!!

It's an interesting definition of love you've got there.  The love I've known has been nurturing and protective, dead set on achieving the best for the beloved ones.  The love I've known has not hated the object of its love.  The love I've known is not controlling or coercive.  The love I've known has accepted the equality of those beloved with those that love.  The love I've known has been counter to allowing suffering, it fights it tooth and nail.

Desiring to be worshiped is not love.  Desiring to control and command is not love.  Letting people suffer horribly is not love.  Hating is not love.  Being above all others is not love.  

Love is humble, love is nurturing, love is kind, love makes no demands - that is the love I know.

People are quick to blame God for all the problems that exist.  People forget that their is also Satin who exists and the fallen world belongs to him.  The Bible is clear on this point.

1 Cor 13: 4-8

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.

[curiosityandthecat]

So...why did god create dinosaurs before people? Were dinosaurs a mistake?

The term "dinosaur" was coined in 1842 by Sir Richard Owen and derives from Greek δεινόÏ, (deinos) "terrible, powerful, wondrous" + σαῦροÏ, (sauros) "lizard"

Did you know reptiles never stop growing until they die? Early humans lived long long ages, for animals, it was the same. Dinosaurs just various oversize lizards.

Uhm, early humans didn't live long, long ages. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that your source for this is the ages of all the people in the Old Testament, saying so-and-so lived to be 704 years old, so-and-so lived to be 679 years old, etc. Am I right?

I heard some freshman making this same argument in my Old Testament class back in my undergrad. It was as ridiculous ten years ago as it is now. Even just a hundred years ago, living to be 40 made someone ancient in most societies. This is due to parasites, predators, unsanitary living conditions, war, violence, starvation, etc, etc, etc. Are you saying that there was none of these things back then? There were no bacteria, viruses, no dirty water, no wars or violence, and ample amounts of food? Come on.

[Man-ofGod]

It's an interesting definition of love you've got there. The love I've known has been nurturing and protective, dead set on achieving the best for the beloved ones. The love I've known has not hated the object of its love. The love I've known is not controlling or coercive. The love I've known has accepted the equality of those beloved with those that love. The love I've known has been counter to allowing suffering, it fights it tooth and nail.

Desiring to be worshiped is not love. Desiring to control and command is not love. Letting people suffer horribly is not love. Hating is not love. Being above all others is not love.

Love is humble, love is nurturing, love is kind, love makes no demands - that is the love I know.

Thats true.  The lord does not hate the humans, he hates sin itself.  The Bible makes it clear that God the father cannot physically stand the presence w/ a sinner.  Besides, a sinner would be miserable in heaven.  If you do not want to follow his laws here, what makes you think you will be happy following them in the world to come.  Sin must be eradicated in order for true happiness to prevail. That is the only way for a universal peace can exist.

[Man-ofGod]

The earthquakes stem again from our sin and more specifically the flood.

Okay, everybody. We can officially forget about this one. Once you get to the "earthquakes stem from our sin" argument, there's no point in even talking.

Move along, people. Nothing to see here.

That is called being pragmatic, picking and choosing the points you can refute.

[curiosityandthecat]

That is called being pragmatic, picking and choosing the points you can refute.

I always called it "snarky".

[Man-ofGod]

So...why did god create dinosaurs before people? Were dinosaurs a mistake?

The term "dinosaur" was coined in 1842 by Sir Richard Owen and derives from Greek δεινόÏ, (deinos) "terrible, powerful, wondrous" + σαῦροÏ, (sauros) "lizard"

Did you know reptiles never stop growing until they die? Early humans lived long long ages, for animals, it was the same. Dinosaurs just various oversize lizards.

Uhm, early humans didn't live long, long ages. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that your source for this is the ages of all the people in the Old Testament, saying so-and-so lived to be 704 years old, so-and-so lived to be 679 years old, etc. Am I right?

I heard some freshman making this same argument in my Old Testament class back in my undergrad. It was as ridiculous ten years ago as it is now. Even just a hundred years ago, living to be 40 made someone ancient in most societies. This is due to parasites, predators, unsanitary living conditions, war, violence, starvation, etc, etc, etc. Are you saying that there was none of these things back then? There were no bacteria, viruses, no dirty water, no wars or violence, and ample amounts of food? Come on.

Have you ever looked the eyebrow ridge of a Neanderthal?  Eyebrow ridge also never stops growing. Thats why old people often have big foreheads.  Their just humans that lived a long time, also proof that we existed at much taller heights then we see now.

[PipeBox]

Have you ever looked the eyebrow ridge of a Neanderthal?  Eyebrow ridge also never stops growing. Thats why old people often have big foreheads.  Their just humans that lived a long time, also proof that we existed at much taller heights then we see now.

I'm no anatomist, but I was unable to find a source for the claim of an ever-growing eyebrow ridge.  Rather, I suspect strongly that it appears the forehead of old people grows because their hairline recedes.

Good news is, I don't have to rely on the eyebrow ridge to back me.  We've sequenced the mRNA of frozen Neanderthal tissue (from multiple sources and in multiple labs) and they are not ancestral to humans.  Their great, great grandparents aren't even ancestral to humans.  They lie on a separate branch from us, though we do share a common ancestor further up the line.

[Recusant]

Hoohboy.  I fear this may need yet another thread, but I'll confine myself to discussing the following statement for now:

 

The reason for believing the Bible is its perfection.
Scientifically accurate (not even talking creation here, just normal facts that weren't known in that time.)

I may get into historical accuracy and prophecy fulfillment as well, but I'll start with this one.  I know it will probably be an exercise in futility (given that you seem to consider all of modern science to be devoted to backing up the theory of evolution) but I have trouble resisting.

I won't get into the π=3 thing; there are fairly easy ways to fudge your way out of that.

In Genesis chapter 1 we have:

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

 11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Followed by:

 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

My question: According to this chronology, the earth existed before any stars.  Are you telling me that this is scientifically accurate?  What is your authority for this?
___________________________________________________

1 Chronicles 16:30
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalms 93:1
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalms 96:10
Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

You mean to tell me that the earth does not move?
__________________________________________________

Isaiah 55:10
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater.

You mean to tell me that there is no such thing as evaporation?
__________________________________________________

Hebrews 12:25-27
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

OK, I guess it's well established then, that earthquakes are caused by god's wrath.  (Tectonics are a fable of 'evolutionists.')
_________________________________________________

Leviticus 11:6
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Hmm, I didn't know that hares chewed a cud.  It may be news to zoologists as well.

I could go on, but I'll let you chew on these for the moment.

[curiosityandthecat]