I want to help.

[Man-ofGod]

Damn satin and satin's evil tactics.
Satin has fooled us to the point we can no longer see satin's influence.

But now I give you photographic proof of the existence of satin:


I'm sorry, I'll be back with a normal post, but the spelling error demanded address.  

No need to apologize.  That was ripe for the picking.  

[curiosityandthecat]

NOW PAY ATTENTION Your about to see where the Jewish(Hebrew) scripture and the Christian (Greek) gospels compliment each other in a way many Christians are not aware of (this is just one of many). Take note of the bold caption.

Oh for chrissake... of COURSE the New Testament complements the Old Testament... it was written to prove Old Testament prophecies' coming true!  :| I'm sold. Call Richard and tell him I'm off the cricket team.

[Man-ofGod]

NOW PAY ATTENTION Your about to see where the Jewish(Hebrew) scripture and the Christian (Greek) gospels compliment each other in a way many Christians are not aware of (this is just one of many). Take note of the bold caption.

Oh for chrissake... of COURSE the New Testament complements the Old Testament... it was written to prove Old Testament prophecies' coming true!  :| I'm sold. Call Richard and tell him I'm off the cricket team.

Wow, the same conspiracy you accuse creationist of using against science your using against scripture.

Its a vast conspiracy amongst many different authors to fulfill old testament prophecy and have the Jews reject that fulfillment at the same time.

Please bear in mind, the old testament prophecy is not that obvious. This is not even considering the prophecy fulfilled outside the Bible.  And its just in recent times we are discovering more of how old testament prophecy was fulfilled.  Think about it for a sec, if its that difficult to ascertain prophecy from reading it, how much more to fabricate it.  Not even if you tried could you make this stuff up and be historically accurate at the same time. Let alone w/multiple authors who would have no purpose in doing so.  Sorry man, got to answer the who what when why and how to even get me to consider your point.

[PipeBox]

The same conspiracy scientists accuse religion of?  Excuse me?

Religious folks have their "soul" invested in their religion.  They depend on it being right for their eternal existence or spiritual fulfillment.

Science is depended on to describe reality, the whole point being to describe reality.  So whenever the science of a day is demonstrably wrong, it is in the best interest of the scientists to update.  There is no holy, unalterable dogma in science.

If God himself came to Earth tomorrow and told everyone the Bible was a work of Satan, you know what all the Christians would say?  They'd say it was Satan trying to trick them.  Except this will never happen because your deity and your devil are only real to those who believe, insomuch as you've been unable to verify either for the past 2000 years.  Christians claim it's supposed to be this way.  And that's all they have, their claim.  Because they can't back that up, either.  The only thing that agrees entirely with their holy book is them (the literalists).  But this has been the norm of all religion since the Egyptians.

Me, I'll stick to the facts I can definitely know.  Magnets don't stop working if you don't believe in them.  Prayers apparently never have if you stop believing in them.  Take it from me.  But then, you very well may think me deceived.  Again, with nothing to back that up.

I do not presume to know everything.  There may be some things that are unknowable.  I'm not proud enough to claim I've got the right answers for all things we don't know.  I'm not proud enough to claim I know somebody who does.  I'm not proud enough to claim that something out there wants me to know.  And I'm definitely not proud enough to claim I hold a book that has all the facts but that I just don't understand it enough to give them to you.  But forget the pride.  I don't even hope that I do.  I'll roll with the punches.  If I'm wrong about something tomorrow, I'll just try to get right.

[Kylyssa]

So it was OK that god tortured Abraham because he said, "Just kidding!" at the end?

But what about killing your children for disobedience?  Would you do that?

[McQ]

Have you ever looked the eyebrow ridge of a Neanderthal?  Eyebrow ridge also never stops growing. Thats why old people often have big foreheads.  Their just humans that lived a long time, also proof that we existed at much taller heights then we see now.

You're joking, right? That claim is so patently stupid that you must be joking.

I told you guys he was probably just a troll or sock puppet, coming in here for some laughs. No one in his right mind would try to stand behind that absurd mis-fact.

If you're not joking, MOG, I would love to see your reference for this.

Hey, MOG! Well done on side skipping this atrocious and fatally damaging error on your part. It's just like you to ignore your mistakes and continue with your tripe.  

[Man-ofGod]

The same conspiracy scientists accuse religion of?  Excuse me?

I said

Wow, the same conspiracy you accuse creationist of using against science your using against scripture.

Religious folks have their "soul" invested in their religion.  They depend on it being right for their eternal existence or spiritual fulfillment.

Science is depended on to describe reality, the whole point being to describe reality.  So whenever the science of a day is demonstrably wrong, it is in the best interest of the scientists to update.  There is no holy, unalterable dogma in science.

If God himself came to Earth tomorrow and told everyone the Bible was a work of Satan, you know what all the Christians would say?  They'd say it was Satan trying to trick them.  Except this will never happen because your deity and your devil are only real to those who believe, insomuch as you've been unable to verify either for the past 2000 years.  Christians claim it's supposed to be this way.  And that's all they have, their claim.  Because they can't back that up, either.  The only thing that agrees entirely with their holy book is them (the literalists).  But this has been the norm of all religion since the Egyptians.

Me, I'll stick to the facts I can definitely know.  Magnets don't stop working if you don't believe in them.  Prayers apparently never have if you stop believing in them.  Take it from me.  But then, you very well may think me deceived.  Again, with nothing to back that up.

I do not presume to know everything.  There may be some things that are unknowable.  I'm not proud enough to claim I've got the right answers for all things we don't know.  I'm not proud enough to claim I know somebody who does.  I'm not proud enough to claim that something out there wants me to know.  And I'm definitely not proud enough to claim I hold a book that has all the facts but that I just don't understand it enough to give them to you.  But forget the pride.  I don't even hope that I do.  I'll roll with the punches.  If I'm wrong about something tomorrow, I'll just try to get right.

Nobody can even concede one point.  For bunch of people who claim to be oh so logical, your incredibly illogical when it comes to the Bible.  Their is not much that can be done.

Can you agree with one thing that I said?

[VanReal]

Look!  This 1200 year old lizard also has a huge brow ridge!!  He must be a cross between iguana and neanderthal.

[PipeBox]

Nobody can even concede one point.  For bunch of people who claim to be oh so logical, your incredibly illogical when it comes to the Bible.  Their is not much that can be done.

Can you agree with one thing that I said?

Sure:  I don't think it is likely the books of the Bible were written with conspiratorial intent.  I also happen to find an accusation of scientific conspiracy so laughable and beyond comparison to religious conspiracy that I wrote you a post detailing why.  I didn't say it was a religious conspiracy, I was irked at your implication that such a conspiracy in science was possible, or even as likely as a biblical conspiracy.

Again, I agree that a Biblical conspiracy is unlikely.  Am I still being illogical?

[Godschild]

If God Himself came to earth tommorrow and told everyone that the Bible was a work of satan,you know what all the christians would say?They'd say it was satan trying to trick them.Except this will never happen because your deity and your devil are only real to those who believe

PipeBox are you trying to use the Bible here.It is in the Bible that satan will stand in the Temple and claim that he is God and that the world will believe him.The Bible also states that the elect would be fooled if that were possible.The elect being the true christians will not be fool because of one very simplefact,we believe.

[Hitsumei]

Why will Satan even do what the bible says he'll do? I wouldn't if I were him, I'd come up with a different plan that isn't spoiled by being written in a book just about everyone owns.

Seems to me that the only thing Satan needs to do to win, is to not do what the bible says he will. Also, why does he torture people, and agree to follow through with putting people in specific places in hell that god deems certain sinners belong in? Why doesn't he compete for souls with bribery? What does he gain by torture and punishment for things god doesn't like, but presumably he does?

For someone who's name means "adversary", he certainly is accommodating.

[rlrose328]

I know exactly what you mean.  I thought I been their done that when I was a Catholic turned atheist.  I just didn't have any of the truth or misconstrued versions of it. Once I learned the truth, praise the lord my mind was still open enough to consider it again.  

This is typical Christian pomposity.  "I have the truth and once YOU have the truth, you will see God as well."

Many of US once "knew the truth" as we were brainwashed to believe... luckily, I realized fact and truth are two different things.  I prefer real facts to manufactured truth.

[rlrose328]

I, like most here, have identified as Christian for a period of time in my life (having been brainwashed from birth), so I don't need to discuss your stories with you.  I'm happy you've found what makes you comfortable.  I have found that as well.  Have fun here, though.  :hide2:

This happens a lot for those born in the faith.  I observe this and I am cognizant when raising my own kids.  You been taught the what, when, but not the why and how.  Its a formula for failure.  And when you go off into the secular world, you learn their version of why and how.

First, do not file me in your "failed Christian" folder with all of the others you've obviously studied.  I was taught the what, when, why and how based on what they believe.  You can teach your children the why and how all you like, but it bears little resemblance to the real world.  Yes, once I got out into the real world, the why and how were irrelevant.  Despite trying to do what I'd been taught, most of the other "Christians" with whom I came into contact were doing whatever the hell they wanted to do... cheat, lie, steal, get ahead by whatever means possible... then run to church on Sunday to worship.  I did know one very special Christian who lived as I'd always been taught.  But she was the exception to the rule.

Hardly ANYONE out there is a "true Christian" that is always talked about, including those accusing others of not being "true Christians."  My own mother is quite bigoted, generalizing all people based on their origin of birth.  I know that's not right... I also know that other than that, she's about as true a Christian as I've ever known.  So she did teach me the why and how.  I chose to do my own thing once I realized that in this world, the why and how are largely irrelevant.  

And I get very tired of that reasoning being applied to atheists, btw.  It's the "we're better than you" argument and it's quite disgusting.

[PipeBox]

PipeBox are you trying to use the Bible here.It is in the Bible that satan will stand in the Temple and claim that he is God and that the world will believe him.The Bible also states that the elect would be fooled if that were possible.The elect being the true christians will not be fool because of one very simplefact,we believe.

At risk of infuriating you, if I were Satan, I would claim just what the Bible says, so that if the real God did show up he would have one hell of a time (pun) trying to convince people that their revered book, the great idol, is not what it claims.  After all, how might God prove himself to you if the Bible is in error?  You have only the strong belief that it is not, and if you're not willing to examine that belief, what hope would you have of knowing the truth short of God forcing the truth into your mind?

I believe CS Lewis once spoke of the minor good contributing to a greater evil.  The simple good of making the Christians happy during life would be a drop in the bucket to the complex evil of getting them all damned.

This, among many other reasons, is why I no longer want to play religious roulette.  If a god exists and it wants my pathetic attention for some reason, then I'll let it convince me.  Otherwise, I'll be learning about that god's creation rather than claiming I already know courtesy of some book written by men.  Men edit books.  Men can't move the stars.

[Godschild]

Why will Satan even do what the bible says he'll do? I wouldn't if I were him, I'd come up with a different plan that isn't spoiled by being written in a book just about everyone owns.

Seems to me that the only thing Satan needs to do to win, is to not do what the bible says he will. Also, why does he torture people, and agree to follow through with putting people in specific places in hell that god deems certain sinners belong in? Why doesn't he compete for souls with bribery? What does he gain by torture and punishment for things god doesn't like, but presumably he does?
For someone who's name means "adversary", he certainly is accommodating

At risk of infuriating you, if I were Satan, I would claim just what the Bible says, so that if the real God did show up he would have one hell of a time (pun) trying to convince people that their revered book, the great idol, is not what it claims. After all, how might God prove himself to you if the Bible is in error? You have only the strong belief that it is not, and if you're not willing to examine that belief, what hope would you have of knowing the truth short of God forcing the truth into your mind?

If I had the answers to all these questions you guys still would not believe.Hitsumei why didn't satan stop Christ from going to the cross,oh he tried but he failed.  Satan is so full of himself he is blind to many things but in the end his rage will over take any sense he has.He knows he is defeated and he will go after his last hu-rah.Satan is so filled with evil and hate that he has no real control over what he will ultimately do and no God want make him do it.Satans only objective is to take as many down as he can,he knows the war is lost,all he wants to do is hurt God.Yes satan has read the Bible and knows it well that is why he tried to stop Christ from going to the cross and he knows that God the one he use to serve is all knowing and the end will be as it's been foretold and the evil rage thats in him will cause him to follow that very path.

He does bribe and it works I know personally,but thank God I listened to the Holy Spirit and received Christ into my life.Satans bribery is suttle if he came right up to someone and promised them something good they would see him for who he is and run straight to God. He disguises all he does,all he wants now is to take as many with him as possible,maybe it's because he believes it will be of some comfort for him in hell.

 PipeBox it is unfortunate that some do idolize the Bible when they should be using it as a study guide that's why it was given to us by the LORD.Don't you think he has already thought of what you suggested and many other ways to defeat God,I do,yet here he is in a no win situation...doomed no way out...so all he can do is take as many down as he can. to all here's lookin at ya!