I want to help.

[PipeBox]

No need. What does evolution think the need for earthquakes are?  The earthquakes stem again from our sin and more specifically the flood.

Ow ow ow ow ow ow ow.  Evolution is a biological theory describing the mechanic by which life differentiates.  It has as much to do with plate tectonics as elemental periodicity (how they are arranged on the periodic table, and yes there is a reason) with gravitational theory.  As to how earthquakes tie into my view on reality?  They're aspects of living on a planet with moving plates and a molten interior.  The structure of the planet makes sense with what we see elsewhere in the cosmos and predict as a result of planetary formation.  We don't expect the universe to be kind, and we, in fact, observe its indifference.  The planet doesn't care when it quakes, it's a function of various forces and matter.  Likewise, the motion of comets and asteroids is governed by natural law as we have yet observed.  I like that you imply that the universe has motive in my world view.  As though "evolution" (where you meant whatever I accept as an explanation) needs to give account for why nature is indifferent.  But all I accept is nature, so there's no appeal to a meta authority for why evolution evolved us in such a way or why planets form as they do instead of some other way.  This is the way these things formed.  These things appear indifferent to us.  You're the one at a loss for trying to explain why the almighty creator would want the universe to occasionally kick the crap out of us.

If earthquakes stem from the flood, I would love to learn how.  The Discovery Institute (creationist "science" think-tank) hasn't been able to tie that one down yet.  Even better would be to ask why Io has earthquakes (ioquakes, if you prefer).  Io didn't flood nor experience sin.  Did the whole universe adjust just to make it appear as though it wasn't our fault, to fool us into believing it was isotropic and the same physics here work on Mars?  Because if it is, God is covering up a truth that would be readily apparent were it not for the meddling.

10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up

They were broken up, large parts of the ocean floor were split apart and water underneath was released with great pressure.  The first earthquakes must of began at this very moment I would imagine.

OK, no, because math.  And geology.  This implies that the unbroken crust of granite and basalt was floating on top of the water.  As this material is far more dense than water, you require an unbroken crust or the water would have poured out "too soon."  Nevermind that there is no evidence for the massive water reservoir, nor any evidence that a planet can form in such a way.  Let's say Goddidit for just a moment, putting water over the inner and outer core and mantle, under the crust.  By the way, the reason we use a layer of water all around the globe under an unbroken crust is because that is the only way it will all be expelled naturally, under the force of the sinking crust giving rise to the oceans and plates.  It is absolutely imperative in this model the crust be universally of the same height.  There is some very tough math behind this, but I'll be happy to source it for you.  For a 10.1 KM (the Bible does say the waters covered even the highest mountains) tall mountain, it would bend the crust below it.  The crust below it would have to extend 4.1 KM below sea level to not break.  Even still, it would bend, and this bending would occur through fracture, and through that small series of hairline fractures the water would be set free, being under enormous pressure.    Even a hill 1 KM high would require the crust be bent by 830 meters into the water reservoir below.  So, we must eliminate all but the very smallest geological aberrations.

Now, you would also need massive pillars linking the crust to the layers beneath the water, otherwise the the free-floating innards would be free to crash against the crust when their movement desynchronized (technically the crust crashes against the innards).  Magma doesn't suffer this problem as it is far, far more dense and and less pliant than water, and because the transitions from crust to mantle to outer core are gentle.  The mantle is more like very hot rock with a low plasticity (though higher than surface rock), anyway.  Anyway, since the crust is fixed from movement you can expect it to heave tidally by about 3 meters whenever the moon is overhead.  Not good, as basalt and granite are not uniformly interlocking crystal structures!  In short order, fractures will develop, and the water, again, escapes far too soon.

But my absolute favorite fact about the flood waters from below is this:  As you go deeper, the temperature gets higher.  So, if you have a 5 KM thick crust (and I'm being very generous here, the continental crust thickness is 35 KM on average and the oceans see 7-10 at their barest, and if you get much thinner over water, the crust will start breaking under its own weak structure and the moon's tidal forces), and the temperature gradient goes up 1 degree C for every 30M into the crust, then your water is at least 191 degrees Celsius.  The pressure of the water under 5 KM of rock would be nearly 1300 atmospheres.  The second you released the water, it would turn to steam and cook the planet.  Noah and his boat of animals would be slowroasted barbecue.

There is no natural mechanic for the waters to have been under the planet.  You're free to believe it was a miracle, but you won't have any kind of science backing you.  You will be standing in opposition to reality as far as the sciences define it.  You will be doing it for your comfortable myth.  If you tell me that really rings right with you.  Or try to give me physically possible circumstances for your flood.  I'm not afraid to plug in numbers with you all day.  Because if we can make a submission that explains all the evidence, and makes some unique predictions for us to research and vindicate, well you and I will have a Nobel in geophysics coming.

[McQ]

Have you ever looked the eyebrow ridge of a Neanderthal?  Eyebrow ridge also never stops growing. Thats why old people often have big foreheads.  Their just humans that lived a long time, also proof that we existed at much taller heights then we see now.

You're joking, right? That claim is so patently stupid that you must be joking.

I told you guys he was probably just a troll or sock puppet, coming in here for some laughs. No one in his right mind would try to stand behind that absurd mis-fact.

If you're not joking, MOG, I would love to see your reference for this.

[PipeBox]

Whatever he is, he enough Bible knowledge to play the part of a believer.  I'd rather assume he has legitimate errata and misconceptions and try to help him rather than just hope it's a troll I'm blowing off.  Even if he's a troll, he's making me look stuff up, and even under the guise of purpose, if none is truly present, it's fun.  As he might say, iron sharpens iron.

Troll iron sharpens my iron.
Creationist iron sharpens my iron.

I'll dispense facts to either until they don't let me anymore.

[Godschild]

To answer the reply of curioscityandthecat to Godschilds reply: Yes,I was thinking about what I had typed when I pushed the submit button I forgot I need to explain things a little better for those who do not believe in God so I'll try again.
God does have freewill but He is limited in His freewill because of who He is.God is love,God is compassionate,God is just and so on and so forth.God has given all of us freewill to choose as we desire and God honors us by letting us do as we see fit even if it is not what He desires for us.Now God might send someone into your life to help us make the right choice but He will not keep you from making the choices you desire.A note at this point do not confuse Gods will with His freewill His ultimate will for His creation will not change.
Yes, God does hate the wrong choices we make,He hates them because of the trouble they bring into our lives and because they are sins and God hates all sin.Sin is against all He is but He will honor our choices no matter what they are so Gods love limits his interfering in our choices.
No, God can not destroy Himself that would be selfish on His part that action would leave us without hope and His creation without purpose and this could be sinful and God hates sin and He can not sin so again Gods freewill is limited to who He is.
You are correct when you say God supposedly punishes people. God allows us to choose our eternal destiny and if we choose to be seperated from Him in this life He will honor that choice and let us have what we want in the next total seperation from Him.That is what hell is total seperation from God,also hell is a place of punishment it is not a place of punishing or torture.So if the choice is seperation He will not dishonor by forcing one to spend eternity with Him that would be torture.Please do not bring the fire thing of hell there is no fire there it is a place darkness.It is a place to think about the choices one has made in life remember wrong choices are sin and unforgiven sin is not allowed in Heaven.
It is clearly stated in the Bible that in Heaven some will receive greater rewards than others will and that there are different levels of hell.This is because God is a just God and He does not play the favorites game.Also Jesus said that the least in this life will be the first in Heaven.
Hey here is one for thought "they will not serve breakfast in hell".

Love to all in Christ Jesus

[Godschild]

Man of God who are you agreeing with curiosityandthecat orGodschild and your reasoning?

[McQ]

Whatever he is, he enough Bible knowledge to play the part of a believer.  I'd rather assume he has legitimate errata and misconceptions and try to help him rather than just hope it's a troll I'm blowing off.  Even if he's a troll, he's making me look stuff up, and even under the guise of purpose, if none is truly present, it's fun.  As he might say, iron sharpens iron.

Troll iron sharpens my iron.
Creationist iron sharpens my iron.

I'll dispense facts to either until they don't let me anymore.

More power to you, my friend!
 

I have done this dance way too many times to love it any more. But you are right. Iron sharpens iron, and you will learn from this, regardless.

[Kylyssa]

It's an interesting definition of love you've got there. The love I've known has been nurturing and protective, dead set on achieving the best for the beloved ones. The love I've known has not hated the object of its love. The love I've known is not controlling or coercive. The love I've known has accepted the equality of those beloved with those that love. The love I've known has been counter to allowing suffering, it fights it tooth and nail.

Desiring to be worshiped is not love. Desiring to control and command is not love. Letting people suffer horribly is not love. Hating is not love. Being above all others is not love.

Love is humble, love is nurturing, love is kind, love makes no demands - that is the love I know.

Thats true.  The lord does not hate the humans, he hates sin itself.  The Bible makes it clear that God the father cannot physically stand the presence w/ a sinner.  Besides, a sinner would be miserable in heaven.  If you do not want to follow his laws here, what makes you think you will be happy following them in the world to come.  Sin must be eradicated in order for true happiness to prevail. That is the only way for a universal peace can exist.

Then please explain god's desire to be worshiped, to control our behavior, to cause suffering, to be unequal with those he pretends to love.  Why is god's love so inferior that it is not a love of equals, it is not a love of nurturing, nor the unconditional love some human parents are capable of having towards their children?  Why would god make stupid little inferior pets like human beings?  Since your mythology holds that god is all-powerful and all-knowing why did he create nearly powerless, ignorant, inferior creatures.  Going back to the Adam and Eve story - why did god create them stupid and forbid them knowledge? What kind of sick entity would purposely cripple their children to ensure their inferiority?  

It would be like human beings genetically engineering our children to be blind and have no arms or legs so they'd require us to carry them around and to feed and clean them then requiring them to beg us to do so.  Then, when they soiled themselves we'd let them rot in their own feces and tell them it's their own fault for excreting even though we hadn't designed them not to.

If you read the Christian Bible, you will see that the main character is vengeful, jealous, angry, spiteful, and exceedingly cruel.

What all-knowing being would torture his most devoted servant by telling him to kill his child just to see if he'd do it when that all-knowing being could see right into Abraham's heart and see that he would if god required it.  Why torture the man and the child if the outcome is already known?  Why test the faithful if their hearts are already known perfectly well by the tester? This sounds more like a devil, an evil thing.  A real parent would have said, "begone demon and go screw thyself for a righteous god would not torture his beloved children."  Abraham bowed to an evil god.  Only a cowardly parent would serve a being so evil as to demand he kill his child.

[Tanker]

It's an interesting definition of love you've got there. The love I've known has been nurturing and protective, dead set on achieving the best for the beloved ones. The love I've known has not hated the object of its love. The love I've known is not controlling or coercive. The love I've known has accepted the equality of those beloved with those that love. The love I've known has been counter to allowing suffering, it fights it tooth and nail.

Desiring to be worshiped is not love. Desiring to control and command is not love. Letting people suffer horribly is not love. Hating is not love. Being above all others is not love.

Love is humble, love is nurturing, love is kind, love makes no demands - that is the love I know.

Thats true.  The lord does not hate the humans, he hates sin itself.  The Bible makes it clear that God the father cannot physically stand the presence w/ a sinner.  Besides, a sinner would be miserable in heaven.  If you do not want to follow his laws here, what makes you think you will be happy following them in the world to come.  Sin must be eradicated in order for true happiness to prevail. That is the only way for a universal peace can exist.

Then please explain god's desire to be worshiped, to control our behavior, to cause suffering, to be unequal with those he pretends to love.  Why is god's love so inferior that it is not a love of equals, it is not a love of nurturing, nor the unconditional love some human parents are capable of having towards their children?  Why would god make stupid little inferior pets like human beings?  Since your mythology holds that god is all-powerful and all-knowing why did he create nearly powerless, ignorant, inferior creatures.  Going back to the Adam and Eve story - why did god create them stupid and forbid them knowledge? What kind of sick entity would purposely cripple their children to ensure their inferiority?  

It would be like human beings genetically engineering our children to be blind and have no arms or legs so they'd require us to carry them around and to feed and clean them then requiring them to beg us to do so.  Then, when they soiled themselves we'd let them rot in their own feces and tell them it's their own fault for excreting even though we hadn't designed them not to.

If you read the Christian Bible, you will see that the main character is vengeful, jealous, angry, spiteful, and exceedingly cruel.

What all-knowing being would torture his most devoted servant by telling him to kill his child just to see if he'd do it when that all-knowing being could see right into Abraham's heart and see that he would if god required it.  Why torture the man and the child if the outcome is already known?  Why test the faithful if their hearts are already known perfectly well by the tester? This sounds more like a devil, an evil thing.  A real parent would have said, "begone demon and go screw thyself for a righteous god would not torture his beloved children."  Abraham bowed to an evil god.  Only a cowardly parent would serve a being so evil as to demand he kill his child.

Very well and susinctly put, I dought I could have summed it up better or clearer if I'd had an entire week.

[BuckeyeInNC]

I have done this dance way too many times to love it any more. But you are right. Iron sharpens iron, and you will learn from this, regardless.

I am learning how ridiculous these bible-loving, god-fearing people truly are  . . . .

[Man-ofGod]

Then please explain god's desire to be worshiped

God is our creator, he wants to be honored like any other father would amongst his children.  This is where choice comes in.  No father wants to be dishonored.

, to control our behavior

Human society cannot be civilized w/ out laws.  In the same way, the heavenly society has laws in its government.

to cause suffering,

Satan and sin is the cause of all suffering.

to be unequal with those he pretends to love.  Why is god's love so inferior that it is not a love of equals, it is not a love of nurturing, nor the unconditional love some human parents are capable of having towards their children?

12 So when He (jesus) had washed their feet, taken His garments, and sat down again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? 13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. 16 Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. 17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.

 

Why would god make stupid little inferior pets like human beings?

Why not?  

Since your mythology holds that god is all-powerful and all-knowing why did he create nearly powerless, ignorant, inferior creatures

We weren't ignorant, or powerless in the beginning.  

Going back to the Adam and Eve story - why did god create them stupid and forbid them knowledge? What kind of sick entity would purposely cripple their children to ensure their inferiority?  

The tree of knowledge was representative specifically of Good and Evil, not knowledge like 2+2 = 4.

It would be like human beings genetically engineering our children to be blind and have no arms or legs so they'd require us to carry them around and to feed and clean them then requiring them to beg us to do so.  Then, when they soiled themselves we'd let them rot in their own feces and tell them it's their own fault for excreting even though we hadn't designed them not to.

see above.

If you read the Christian Bible, you will see that the main character is vengeful, jealous, angry, spiteful, and exceedingly cruel.

Whats wrong w/ anger, and jealousy when it comes to a father and his children?  Vengeful against Satan and his tactics. Cruel? do not see that at all.

What all-knowing being would torture his most devoted servant by telling him to kill his child just to see if he'd do it when that all-knowing being could see right into Abraham's heart and see that he would if god required it.  Why torture the man and the child if the outcome is already known?  Why test the faithful if their hearts are already known perfectly well by the tester? This sounds more like a devil, an evil thing.  A real parent would have said, "begone demon and go screw thyself for a righteous god would not torture his beloved children."  Abraham bowed to an evil god.  Only a cowardly parent would serve a being so evil as to demand he kill his child.

Good question that deserves an equally thought out response, therefore I will respond on a separate post.

[Kylyssa]

Then please explain god's desire to be worshiped

God is our creator, he wants to be honored like any other father would amongst his children.  This is where choice comes in.  No father wants to be dishonored.

Normal fathers would be horrified if their children worshiped them.

[Hitsumei]

Have you ever looked the eyebrow ridge of a Neanderthal?  Eyebrow ridge also never stops growing. Thats why old people often have big foreheads.  Their just humans that lived a long time, also proof that we existed at much taller heights then we see now.

You're joking, right? That claim is so patently stupid that you must be joking.

I told you guys he was probably just a troll or sock puppet, coming in here for some laughs. No one in his right mind would try to stand behind that absurd mis-fact.

If you're not joking, MOG, I would love to see your reference for this.

Unfortunately I've heard creationists state this before, despite the astonishing amount of confirmation bias that is required to do so. It ignores the fact that we have different bone structures than Neanderthals, that they had a 20% larger body mass to brain size ratio to homo sapiens, and as homo sapiens age, their brain shrinks. They had a different culture, diet, tools, hunting practises, and their DNA has demonstrated that they diverged from our ancestry around eight hundred thousand years ago, long before homo sapiens were around. Most importantly though, we have the remains of Neanderthal children and babies.

It also ignores the other eleven hominid species.

[Kylyssa]

If you read the Christian Bible, you will see that the main character is vengeful, jealous, angry, spiteful, and exceedingly cruel.

Whats wrong w/ anger, and jealousy when it comes to a father and his children?  Vengeful against Satin and his tactics. Cruel? do not see that at all.

No good father is jealous of his children or who they show affection to.  No good father kills his children for disobedience.  It is wrong to act out of anger towards your children.  This god would be an evil father.  Were it a human parent, we'd give it the death penalty for again and again killing its children.

Under no circumstance is it OK to slaughter your children for disobedience.  It must be confusing living with such an abusive "parent" threatening them.  No wonder Christians commit more crimes per capita than non-theists!

[PipeBox]

Damn satin and satin's evil tactics.
Satin has fooled us to the point we can no longer see satin's influence.

But now I give you photographic proof of the existence of satin:


I'm sorry, I'll be back with a normal post, but the spelling error demanded address.  

[Man-ofGod]

What all-knowing being would torture his most devoted servant by telling him to kill his child just to see if he'd do it when that all-knowing being could see right into Abraham's heart and see that he would if god required it.  Why torture the man and the child if the outcome is already known?  Why test the faithful if their hearts are already known perfectly well by the tester? This sounds more like a devil, an evil thing.  A real parent would have said, "begone demon and go screw thyself for a righteous god would not torture his beloved children."  Abraham bowed to an evil god.  Only a cowardly parent would serve a being so evil as to demand he kill his child.

The sooner you understand that the Bible was written for our sake, the the events of the old testament make sense.

Little background,

God promised Abraham

Genesis 17:5
No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations.

Now clinging to the promise made by God, Abraham and his wife Sarah was attempting to have a child.  But no matter how much they tried they were not able to.  Sarah being old at this point thought it was not possible. Therefor, she took matters in her own hands and convinced Abraham to use the servant Hagar as a surrogate mother (the first mistake, was not clinging on to Gods promise.)  This brought spite and envy amongst the two women in Abraham's household (first consequence of this sin).  Moving on, an Angel of the Lord appeared and promised Abraham that Sarah will begot a son.

Genesis 17:17
Then Abraham fell on his face (bowed in worship) and laughed, and said in his heart, “Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?”

Genesis 18 :10-1510 And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son.”
(Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.) 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
13 And the LORD said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.”
15 But Sarah denied it, saying, “I did not laugh,” for she was afraid.

GE 1:11 And the LORD visited Sarah as He had said, and the LORD did for Sarah as He had spoken. 2 For Sarah conceived and bore Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him

NOW PAY ATTENTION Your about to see where the Jewish(Hebrew) scripture and the Christian (Greek) gospels compliment each other in a way many Christians are not aware of (this is just one of many). Take note of the bold caption.

Old Testament (Hebrew)

Genesis 221 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”

New Testament (Greek)

John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him

.

John 17:24
“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

 
Old Testament (Hebrew)

GE 22: 6 So Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife, and the two of them went together.

New Testament (Greek)

Matthew 27:32 As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross.

Old Testament (Hebrew)

GE 227 But Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!”
And he said, “Here I am, my son.”
Then he said, “Look, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?”
8 And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.”

New Testament (Greek)

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Old Testament Hebrew

11 But the Angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”
So he said, “Here I am.”
12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

13 Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns

New Testament (Greek)

John 19:5
 Then Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe.

So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of the place, The-LORD-Will-Provide; as it is said to this day, “In the Mount of the LORD it shall be provided.”

Indeed, the Lord has provided.  The more truth is resisted, the easier it becomes to harden your heart.