A discussion on homosexuality.

[Abletony]

Do you think we could cut the homosexuality discussion on this thread please, it's a derail and not what this thread is about.

Thanks
Chris

Agreed.  And let's stop borderline bashing, abletony.  Keep your opinions on homosexuals to yourself please, as it seems you may have issues with them.  This is suppose to be a civl board.

((Aw, I like dolphins and their silly horny selves.  xD))

Sweetdeath, my brother is gay, at college I had a friend who was gay and everyone took the piss and I defended him and when he went to a gay pub for the first time I went with him to keep him company, and I think gay folk can be the nicest people you can know, so don't you start judging me based on a comment which you have so obviously misconstrued. Yes I find gay sex pretty disgusting but I'm not gay and that's not my style. But that's my personal opinion, based on taste and aesthetics. I don't have to like gay sex to like gay people. I don't judge people on what they do but that doesn't mean I have to want to join in. So get off your high horse and quit being so superficial. What gay people do in bed has nothing to do with their character, which is why I can have an opinion on one which has no bearing on the other. It's called being an adult.

[Tank]

Bump for noobs

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I don't think that homosexuality is 100% genetic. No, I don't think it's a "lifestyle choice" or "unnatural" or any of that B.S. I believe that having a sexual identity is very real, but I would argue that any kind of sexuality, on any scale, is partly a social construct.

This is sort of how I see it. There may be genetic traits that make it more likely that a person will develop a homosexual orientation, but environmental factors may nudge it one way or the other.

[Stevil]

But if a person has a genetic trait with regards to eating toast rather than bread, does it actually make any difference if they decide to eat bread in conflict of their genetic traits? Does that make it immoral of them to eat bread?

[Sandra Craft]

The roots of an individual's behaviour are generally considered to be a balance between 'nature' (genetic and/or prenatal disposition) and 'nurture' (learned/cultural disposition). So an individual's sexuality could be hard coded and/or learned and anywhere between those two extremes of 100% nature to 100% nurture. Given the complexity of the human genome I would consider it practically impossible that a person with homosexual preferences could not come about through natural variations/mutations. I am also reasonably sure that social and cultural influences can be so strong that a persons sexual preferences could be influenced by there surroundings, upbringing and peer pressure during their sexually formative years.  

I would definitely agree that sexuality is created by a mixture of nature and nurture.  Since I've got one aunt, one first cousin and two 2nd cousins that are gay (and that's that I know of), so it's easy for me to see sexuality having a genetic component.  The inclination, or disinclination, to act on otherwise taboo desires would be the nuture side of it -- the influence of society in general, and of your own formative experiences growing up. 

I've never been really sure that natural selection would get a chance to play that big a role in eliminating any gay gene(s) that may exist.  Most of the animals (and I'm including humans) who engage in homosexual behavior also engage in heterosexual behavior; I don't have any research but I'd be willing to bet that any type of exclusive sexuality is very rare. 

Up until very recently most people married for either social or financial reasons and had kids at least for the sake of someone to take care of them in their old age (I'm sure there were other reasons too, but that was a big one) and what gender they preferred to have sex with was never a consideration, unless they took a lover.  Plenty of oppurtunities for a gay gene to be passed along in humans.

[Guardian85]

A funny clip from a documentary on homosexuality. Looks at the science behind homosexuality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrk1boI93SI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[AnimatedDirt]

Can People Stop Being Gay?

It is currently unknown whether some combination of Pavlovian conditioning, learning processes and even hormone therapies could enable truly motivated individuals with a same-sex predisposition to adapt to heterosexual lifestyles, whether for religious, cultural or personal reasons. But considering that very few scientists view homosexuality as a problem needing fixing, will these clinical reorientation therapies ever be developed? As Beckstead noted, "Our best efforts may not be in trying to change possibly immutable aspects of sexuality but in trying to reduce the misunderstanding, discrimination, and hostility that exist within non-heterosexuals and their social situations."

[fester30]

I think we'll be closer to equality as a society with respect to homosexuality when we stop arguing about whether someone is born that way or if it's a choice.  Calling it a choice is currently an excuse to call it sinful and bash homosexual lifestyle as willfully against god's will.  I'm not an expert on anything, but it does seem to me that at times homosexuality is a choice.  There was a study recently that showed a high rate of sexual fluidity among women.  Perhaps they were born both ways.  Maybe every time they engage in sex they make a choice... will it be a girl or a guy tonight... or both perhaps?  Some of the women in the study changed their sexual orientation more than once in the ten years.

I think the debate of nature vs. nurture concerning homosexuality is a fine one from a scientific or psychological point of view.  However, I hope someday it won't matter whether it's a choice or not.  If it's not a choice, great, go enjoy loving and being loved.  If you CHOOSE to be gay... great... go enjoy loving and being loved.  What the hell does it matter?  When we as a society get to that point we'll have taken the huge step that I think is necessary for equal rights to happen.

Dev Psychol. 2008 Jan;44(1):5-14.
Female bisexuality from adolescence to adulthood: results from a 10-year longitudinal study.
Diamond LM.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194000

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I really think it won't be much of an issue in another generation. Young people today just don't think that much about it.

[Asmodean]

I really think it won't be much of an issue in another generation. Young people today just don't think that much about it.

Old age is a poor excuse for intolerance, bigotry and a whole mess of other personal crap issues.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I really think it won't be much of an issue in another generation. Young people today just don't think that much about it.

Old age is a poor excuse for intolerance, bigotry and a whole mess of other personal crap issues.

I wasn't offering it as an excuse. I was simply observing that this issue is not as big a deal among the younger generation.

[Tank]

I really think it won't be much of an issue in another generation. Young people today just don't think that much about it.

Old age is a poor excuse for intolerance, bigotry and a whole mess of other personal crap issues.

I wasn't offering it as an excuse. I was simply observing that this issue is not as big a deal among the younger generation.

My three kids 27, 25 & 25 have no issues whatsoever with gender alignment; for the majority of people at or below that age in the UK it's a non-event.

[Ali]

I really think it won't be much of an issue in another generation. Young people today just don't think that much about it.

Old age is a poor excuse for intolerance, bigotry and a whole mess of other personal crap issues.

I wasn't offering it as an excuse. I was simply observing that this issue is not as big a deal among the younger generation.

My three kids 27, 25 & 25 have no issues whatsoever with gender alignment; for the majority of people at or below that age in the UK it's a non-event.

Agreed.  I don't know anyone here in the US around my age (31) or younger that gives a flying flip about someone else's sexual orientation. Even the Christian young adults that I know are like "If it's a sin, that's between them and god and none of my concern."  Which is an acceptable position IMO.  Once the old bigots are gone, I doubt there will be many people left to teach kids that homosexuality is a Big Deal.  I think that in a couple of generations, people will probbably look back on the old laws against gay marriage and be horrified, like we currently feel when we look back on the old laws against white and black people getting married.  That makes me happy.

[Stevil]

I really think it won't be much of an issue in another generation. Young people today just don't think that much about it.

Old age is a poor excuse for intolerance, bigotry and a whole mess of other personal crap issues.

I wasn't offering it as an excuse. I was simply observing that this issue is not as big a deal among the younger generation.

My three kids 27, 25 & 25 have no issues whatsoever with gender alignment; for the majority of people at or below that age in the UK it's a non-event.

It is a good argument for the whole life and death cycle. Out with the old ideas, in with the new.

When we get to a certain age we seem to get stuck in a way of thinking.

[Amicale]

Not so long ago, the whole debate over whether black people could marry white people was raging, and people were vehemently opposed to it. The protesters against gay marriage and gay people in general really do look just that silly, at least to me.

Once the current generation (early 30s and under) starts to get older, I think the next big issue coming up will be either plural marriage (more than 2 people in the marriage) or possibly transgender issues - although prettymuch anyone I know close to my age (late 20s) has no issue with gay marriage, the jury's still out for a lot of people my age on trans issues. The issues aren't understood very well, as not too many people know anyone who is trans.

But anyhow, I'm perfectly happy that within a generation or so, gay relationships/marriage etc won't probably be an issue. It shouldn't be. As for whether it's a choice or a predisposition... again, shouldn't be an issue. Many of us are somewhere on a fluid, sliding scale, not being absolutely gay or absolutely straight. I'm not 100% one way or the other, although I lean further to one side for sure. It's just a matter of diversity, I think. I also think such categories are really too narrowly defined.