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The Imperial Messiah

Started by Augustus, March 21, 2012, 10:00:46 PM

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Augustus

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 22, 2012, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Augustus on March 21, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
would be nice to see Christians might think of this, given that Jesus was not by any means the only one regarded as the King of Kings at the time and (arguably) accomplished a lot less compared to Augustus. :)

Does Augustus still have 2,000,000,000 people who think he is divine? Did his kingdom last 2000 years?

Well technically 1480 years so almost ;)

Stevil

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 22, 2012, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Augustus on March 21, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
would be nice to see Christians might think of this, given that Jesus was not by any means the only one regarded as the King of Kings at the time and (arguably) accomplished a lot less compared to Augustus. :)

Does Augustus still have 2,000,000,000 people who think he is divine? Did his kingdom last 2000 years?  Depends on your perspective regarding who accomplished more or less.  For me, Jesus existed and accomplished exactly what he intended to accomplish, which was to offer reconciliation between humankind and God.
Jesus is King Nothing.

He never had a kingdom, if he did exist he was simply yet another crazy unshaven bare foot preacher, pedaling the streets hoping someone would notice.
They are a dime a dozen.

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on March 22, 2012, 05:57:56 PM
Augustus didn't have Jesus' spin doctors or agents. 

Perhaps not, but then one must ask "why not"?  Think of the material resources Augustus had compared to Jesus. He just didn't inspire the kind of enduring loyalty that Jesus did. He didn't have what it took as a god.  Jesus started small and grew big.  Augustus started big and fizzled.



Guardian85

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 22, 2012, 09:19:40 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on March 22, 2012, 05:57:56 PM
Augustus didn't have Jesus' spin doctors or agents. 

Perhaps not, but then one must ask "why not"?  Think of the material resources Augustus had compared to Jesus. He just didn't inspire the kind of enduring loyalty that Jesus did. He didn't have what it took as a god.  Jesus started small and grew big.  Augustus started big and fizzled.




Jesus started and ended small. Then his deciples started spinning tales.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Gawen

As far as I know, Messianism is uniquely Jewish; hijacked and subverted by Christianity and Islam. The requirements for the Messiah are:
1) Peace among all nations (Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3)
2) Perfect harmony and abundance in nature (Isaiah 11:6-9) (but some interpret this as an allegory for peace and prosperity)
3) All Jews return from exile to Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5)
4) Universal acceptance of the Jewish God and Jewish religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; 66:23; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9)
5) No sin or evil; all Israel will obey the commandments (Zephaniah 3:13; Ezekiel 37:24)
6) Reinstatement of the Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-27)

So far, no religious, ideological, supernatural, governmental or secular entity has come close to these requirements.


The essence of the mind is not in what it thinks, but how it thinks. Faith is the surrender of our mind; of reason and our skepticism to put all our trust or faith in someone or something that has no good evidence of itself. That is a sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith is not.
"When you fall, I will be there" - Floor

Too Few Lions

Yeah, I think 'messiah' just means 'the annointed', and in biblical terms it originally referred to the king of Israel / Judah, who was the annointed/'messiah' of Yahweh. It actually appears very few times in the Old Testament, and when it does it invariably refers to a king, and pretty much always to the mythical / legendary trio of Saul, David and Solomon.

After the kingdom of Judah fell and the Jews no longer had a king I guess they had to change what the word / idea referred to. The idea of a future messiah that would usher in some world age / judgement is actually quite a late post-biblical development in Judaism, and there are no prophecies about it in the Hebrew Bible because the idea didn't exist when the Old Testament was written.

Crow

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 22, 2012, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Augustus on March 21, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
would be nice to see Christians might think of this, given that Jesus was not by any means the only one regarded as the King of Kings at the time and (arguably) accomplished a lot less compared to Augustus. :)

Does Augustus still have 2,000,000,000 people who think he is divine? Did his kingdom last 2000 years?  Depends on your perspective regarding who accomplished more or less.  For me, Jesus existed and accomplished exactly what he intended to accomplish, which was to offer reconciliation between humankind and God.

"Don't underestimate the power of mythology"
Because billions follow said mythology doesn't correlate to that mythology being factual. Hinduism is one of the oldest religions and is practiced all over the world and is the third largest religion at the moment, it has probably had the most amount of followers in a historical sense, many people that aren't Hindus are effected by the culture of the religion even if they do not realise it, all of that doesn't mean its any more true than Celtic mythology.
Retired member.