God is perfect

[Tank]

I mean I learned it from you. You said love is a feeling and then crticized compassionate volunteers. Well, if love is a feeling then it comes and goes with the wind doesn't it.

Do you just walk around all day making it a point to be intentionally thick?  No, what I really think you do is feed on contention and anger.  You're like a parasite of negativity.  You need help.  Get some fucking therapy you douchebag.  Even Jesus can't stand you.

I know, Tank!  I know!  But this guy is seriously messed up.  He's a trainwreck.

You knew it was coming. First warning for a personal attack. Please refrain from such behaviour in the future.

[MadBomr101]

You knew it was coming. First warning for a personal attack. Please refrain from such behaviour in the future.

Yeah I knew but it was worth it.   

[Egor]

Wow... cynical, much?

I don't know if you are married or not, but are you really saying that if you didn't have god watching you, your feelings for a wife or girlfriend would be worth less? If that is the case I just lost my last shred of respect for you.

If there were no God, my feelings would be an illusion along with my consciousness. My feelings would simply be what complex matter does for ultimately chaotic reasons. Isn't that right?

[Davin]

Wow... cynical, much?

I don't know if you are married or not, but are you really saying that if you didn't have god watching you, your feelings for a wife or girlfriend would be worth less? If that is the case I just lost my last shred of respect for you.

If there were no God, my feelings would be an illusion along with my consciousness. My feelings would simply be what complex matter does for ultimately chaotic reasons. Isn't that right?

No, that is not right.

[Guardian85]

Wow... cynical, much?

I don't know if you are married or not, but are you really saying that if you didn't have god watching you, your feelings for a wife or girlfriend would be worth less? If that is the case I just lost my last shred of respect for you.

If there were no God, my feelings would be an illusion along with my consciousness. My feelings would simply be what complex matter does for ultimately chaotic reasons. Isn't that right?

Love is chaotic. That doesn't mean that the mechanics of your brain that make you feel love are chaotic or random. Love as we know it is a evolved evolutionary trait. It evolved as a mechanism for keeping family groups together for support or protection. That said:
Your feelings are the principal expression of your concious mind. Without them you would be a drone. I am sorry you have been so deluded by christianity that you don't even credit yourself with your own feelings for your family.

[Sandra Craft]

Never mind.  Done debating for today.

Perhaps the definition of love is also a moving target?

[Tank]

Wow... cynical, much?

I don't know if you are married or not, but are you really saying that if you didn't have god watching you, your feelings for a wife or girlfriend would be worth less? If that is the case I just lost my last shred of respect for you.

If there were no God, my feelings would be an illusion along with my consciousness. My feelings would simply be what complex matter does for ultimately chaotic reasons. Isn't that right?

No it isn't right. You are equating your feelings and consciousness with the existence of the Jabberwocky. And there is no evidence that the Jabberwocky exists. Your feelings and consciousness are the result of the extremely complex chemical operation of your brain that has been evolving for the last 600 to 700 million years. How can we see this? Your feelings and consciousness can be altered by chemical medication effecting your brain. Simple.

[Ali]

Never mind.  Done debating for today.

Perhaps the definition of love is also a moving target?

Ain't that the truth? 

[Egor]

Everything that is identified as "sin" in the Bible is so wrapped up with human nature that it's impossible to hate those acts without hating the person, as well. 

Then the profession of psychicatric nursing should be impossible. Right?

Think of a factory that produces a product - if you hate the product, it makes no sense to say that you do not hate the factory that produces it.

Sure it does. If you stop the inhumane factory farming of turkeys and chickens, and industry I hate, I have nothing against the buildings, the grounds, and the grain storage bins of the previously, badly run factory farm. In fact, you can use that same factory to humanely raise chickens and turkeys.

You all want me to be wrong on this, because you desperately need me to be a hater, but I'm not, and you can't deal with that. I recently wrote an entire article on the Westboro Baptist Church. I'm not even sure they are "haters" they way you might think they are. I realize you need your straw men, but you're not going to get one out of me by saying I hate you.

Instead of getting caught up in this "hate" distinction, it seems more productive to simply realize that some behaviors are destructive (or which prevent us from reaching our potential), and them work in some way to assist people to overcome those behaviors.  That would be an act of love.

I agree. But I do hate atheism. Apparently I do, becaue I am working for its destruction. That's an act that meets my definition of hate. But atheism is an ideology not a person. It would be like saying Jesus hates hypocrisy. Same, same.

If a particular behavior is not destructive, then there is no reason to be concerned about it. Some acts that would have been destructive in another time or culture may not be so today.

Hmmm. Now there's a dangerous statement.

For me, the focus in Christianity is off of sin and more on grace and love. Focusing on sin is a more OT concept and is the hallmark of legalism and judgmentalism.  According to the gospel of John, Jesus came to take away the sin of the world. "Sin" as a concept should be becoming less the focus, and acting with love (which "keeps no account of wrongs" - Whitney's verse from I Cor.) more the focus.

I agree with that. I think people tend to get more concerned about sin than God is. However, when it comes to atheism, we must do all we can because that is a sin that necessarily separates one from God for all eternity.

Now look, I don't know who the real atheists are in here. I don't. Because I know that many may only be playing the Devil's advocate and are really what we would call "seekers." So I can't say in here who's going to hell and who isn't. But I do know that if one rejects God and Christ, then when they die, they won't just die as the vast majority of people will (and I'll write about the dynamics of hell later) They will be tormented forever apparently for the pleasure of God. Could they ultimately be saved from hell? I don't know. Jesus doesn't rule that out in the Gospels, but he doesn't mention it either.

What I hate is that here are these thinkers of things spiritual, and they are. Atheist groups like this are more intellectually active than any Christian group I've ever been in. But here they are, and they won't be in the Kingdom when this relatively short time for all of us is over. Wouldn't it be great if instead of throwing out God and Christ we transformed the church, stole Christianity from the hypocrites and idiots, and turned it into an unstoppable religious and political force in this time--our time?

ehh...pipe dreams I suppose.

[Sandra Craft]

So when the feelings go there's goes love. "Sorry, dear. I know I said I'd love you in sickness and in health, but you're sick and this other bit at the pub is making me randy, so...I don't love you anymore. I now love her. For now."

He swings and misses...again!

The above caricature that you offer as an example of the atheist capacity for love isn't just insulting, it's yet another head shakingly pathetic example as to just how clueless you are of not only atheists but of people in general.  

It is, however, a rather close description of my devout Xtian sister-in-law's decision to divorce my brother.

[Egor]

Do you just walk around all day making it a point to be intentionally thick?  No, what I really think you do is feed on contention and anger.  You're like a parasite of negativity.  You need help.  Get some fucking therapy you douchebag.  Even Jesus can't stand you.

I know, Tank!  I know!  But this guy is seriously messed up.  He's a trainwreck.

I don't get the feeling your Raving Atheist stuff is going to go over well in here. You know, you can identify a person by how they write. That's why I don't bother hiding my identity. Every group I go in knows who I am from five years ago, it seems.

[Egor]

Love is chaotic. That doesn't mean that the mechanics of your brain that make you feel love are chaotic or random. Love as we know it is a evolved evolutionary trait.

Like passing gas. Yes?

It evolved as a mechanism for keeping family groups together for support or protection.

Just like poverty.

That said:
Your feelings are the principal expression of your concious mind. Without them you would be a drone. I am sorry you have been so deluded by christianity that you don't even credit yourself with your own feelings for your family.

It's not about my feelings for my family. It's about what I consider love to be. I see it as one of the eternal attributes of God in me in part. And when I no longer am a prisoner to this body, I will manifest that attribute much more clearly than I am capable of doing now.

You see love as an evolutionary survival instinct. And I think you do it an injustice.

[Tank]

Love is chaotic. That doesn't mean that the mechanics of your brain that make you feel love are chaotic or random. Love as we know it is a evolved evolutionary trait.

Like passing gas. Yes?

It evolved as a mechanism for keeping family groups together for support or protection.

Just like poverty.

That said:
Your feelings are the principal expression of your concious mind. Without them you would be a drone. I am sorry you have been so deluded by christianity that you don't even credit yourself with your own feelings for your family.

It's not about my feelings for my family. It's about what I consider love to be. I see it as one of the eternal attributes of God in me in part. And when I no longer am a prisoner to this body, I will manifest that attribute much more clearly than I am capable of doing now.

You see love as an evolutionary survival instinct. And I think you do it an injustice.

Well your feelings don't matter do they. It's what you can show evidence for that matters. Behaviours are evolved, love is an evolved behaviour. It's there because it works in ensuring the survival of offspring until sexual maturity. It's cold, it's harsh but it's still reality.

[Egor]

No it isn't right. You are equating your feelings and consciousness with the existence of the Jabberwocky. And there is no evidence that the Jabberwocky exists. Your feelings and consciousness are the result of the extremely complex chemical operation of your brain that has been evolving for the last 600 to 700 million years. How can we see this? Your feelings and consciousness can be altered by chemical medication effecting your brain. Simple.

Fine, but in the context of our discussion that doesn't say a lot for love. The commercials used to say, "A diamond is forever." But we know that's not true, because eventually your bride will become a rotting corpse and the ring will just fall off--I mean eventually. What is eternal is the love we give to one another. The fidelity in a marriage, the respect, the loyalty, the confederacy--in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad. It's the greatest gift we can give, because it's the one eternal thing God has given us that we can give away.

If it's just a biological function evolved over the years, like the feeling of needing to urinate, I think I'd rather have the diamond.

[Ali]

What I hate is that here are these thinkers of things spiritual, and they are. Atheist groups like this are more intellectually active than any Christian group I've ever been in. But here they are, and they won't be in the Kingdom when this relatively short time for all of us is over. Wouldn't it be great if instead of throwing out God and Christ we transformed the church, stole Christianity from the hypocrites and idiots, and turned it into an unstoppable religious and political force in this time--our time?

ehh...pipe dreams I suppose.

Don't you worry your little head about us, Egor.  One of my dear friend is a minister (UU) with a Masters in Divinity.  She informs me that atheists are "God's thinking children" and are as beloved to god as any other.  According to her if there's a heaven, you'll see us there.    See, now you can spend your life focused on something more productive.