Becoming a more involved atheist

[Traveler]

...I guess im asking can someone be an Atheist yet take a strong affirmative position for how the Cosmos DID originate ?

The only honest answer to this question is "we don't know." We can guess, we can postulate, we can theorize. But no ones knows. No one. Not you, not me, not the most brilliant scientist on the planet, not the most wise religious leader. All anyone can do is keep asking questions and keep looking.

Lastly,  is there a logical deduction that can be made for an atheistic worldview based on the current science that we have ,or, is that not possible because science is always refining itself  as time goes on ?  Thanks.

You're missing the point. All atheism is is the lack of a god belief. Individuals can have all kinds of varying world views. There is no single atheistic world view.

[Sandra Craft]

Im kind of at the same place you are ...that is,  how can an Atheist absolutely know with all certainty that the absolute declaration that 'There is no God (creator)'   be true ?   Because our finite minds have limited knowledge,  it would seem that we cant reach that point conclusively .   

I'm not sure all that many atheists say that -- even Richard Dawkins is a 6 on the Dawkins scale.  The usual atheist stance is that we don't know, and neither does anyone else no matter what they believe.  The inability to prove a negative (god does not exist) does not automatically mean the opposite is proven.  It's simply unknown and probably unknowable.  Most atheists you'll meet are comfortable with that, it's Xtians who usually freak out over not having an absolute answer.

[Whitney]

If atheism is about belief (in no God existing)  ,  then doesnt that position automatically default toward some sort of an affirmative belief for the Cause of the Universe and for the cause of all this scientifcally confirmed complexity we see in the many things around us ... since we ARE really here and there really ARE highly organized complex things we commonly detect and refer to as design and engineering ?

No, of course not. All atheism is the lack of a god belief. It doesn't say anything else about anything else.

Speaking for myself, I have no clue how everything began. And I think that at this stage of our knowledge as a species, we're highly unlikely to know during my lifetime. There are lots of theories bouncing around, and people are exploring new ideas every day. But to grasp onto an idea and spout it as the truth is, in my not-so-humble opinion, absurdly arrogant. We can't know. Period. End of sentence. Anyone who claims absolute knowledge of how the universe began is either deluded or lying.

I understand Humanism is atheistic  and according to the Free Inquiry  (the Humanist offical magazine),  naturalism and materialism are the components which are expressed as the Cause ;  if not all Atheists hold to Humanism,  then what other Causations do they see as possibilities ?    I guess im asking can someone be an Atheist yet take a strong affirmative position for how the Cosmos DID originate ?   Lastly,  is there a logical deduction that can be made for an atheistic worldview based on the current science that we have ,or, is that not possible because science is always refining itself  as time goes on ?  Thanks.

So....when you said you were "raised atheist" you were lying?  I'd think someone who was actually raised under that label would at least know some of the basics.

I think Tank's spidey sense might have been on track...

[Sandra Craft]

I understand Humanism is atheistic 

I don't think it is, necessarily.  I've heard of religous humanism as well as secular humanism, and according to Wikipedia, there's a 3rd type of humanism:

Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view or practice that focuses on human values and concerns. In other words it is an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. According to Greg M. Epstein, "Humanism today can be categorized as a movement, a philosophy of life or worldview, or ... [a] lifestance." In philosophy and social science, humanism is a perspective which affirms some notion of human nature, and is contrasted with anti-humanism.

Secular humanism is a secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, whilst specifically rejecting supernatural and religious dogma as a basis of morality and decision-making. Secular humanism contrasts with religious humanism, which is an integration of humanist ethical philosophy with religious rituals and beliefs that center on human needs, interests, and abilities. Renaissance humanism is a cultural movement of the Italian Renaissance based on the study of classical works.

[Ateo]

  I really like the title of your topic Firebird :

   "Becoming a more involved atheist"

[SummerintheDam]

Hi Firebird! Great minds think alike - I just joined today as well.

I, too, considered myself an agnostic from as young an age as I can remember. Even as a kid it never made sense to me. In my experience I think I was afraid to admit to myself I didn't believe. Even though I did not grow up in a religious household, God has a way of seeping into the daily American routine, so I think I was a little brainwashed to believe there was a God.

When I finally accepted the fact that I truly, truly think religion is absolute nonsense for a thousand reasons, I knew I could finally identify myself as an atheist. I mean, not out loud of course. Just to myself. Shh.

It was actually kind of liberating - even if just to myself.

This is *exactly* how I feel! Well, the end bit, I grew up in a church of christ household and only started really doubting god's existence a few years ago, and only in the last few months have I felt the ball drop and truly doubt it all, but I do feel sheepish about referring to myself as anything, much less an atheist...

[Firebird]

You got some good posts in reply Firebird. I'm curious, what's your response.

I just noticed how big this discussion has grown. Based on what you've all said, I am firmly in the agnostic atheist camp. I don't presume to know if there are god(s), spaghetti monsters, etc or not...I just highly doubt it I'd also give myself a 6 on the Dawkins scale.

[Wessik]

Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.

Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.

[Ateo]

Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.

Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.

   
Hello Wessik.

I see that English is not your first language and I'm assuming that you used a computer program to translate your thoughts from, possibly German, to English. Please do not misconstrue my intentions, I am trying to help, your posting however, is confusing.

I have received machine translated letters before and most of the time they come out completely unintelligible, sometimes saying the opposite of what was intended. I am afraid this could be what has happened to your posting. I would suggest you show this to someone who is fluent in both your language and English, and ask them to have a look at it.

I really like the sound of being an amatheist, but alas, I'm a committed atheist.

[Davin]

Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.

Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.

   
Hello Wessik.

I see that English is not your first language and I'm assuming that you used a computer program to translate your thoughts from, possibly German, to English. Please do not misconstrue my intentions, I am trying to help, your posting however, is confusing.

I did not find anything confusing in that post at all, it was very clear and proper English.

[Firebird]

Hello, Firebird. Nice to meet you. I would have to say that I don't like either of the terms Atheist or Agnostic when describing myself. You see, describing myself as an atheist might technically be true, but in doing so I seem to imply that religion is, in some form of another, important to myself. I suppose a third term could be created to refer to oneself which hinges on the importance of religion in one's life. Myself, personally, experience religious symbols and ideas in my life every day, as well as secular thoughts and symbols to a lesser scale. But I consider the actual position on whether god exists to be beside the point in debates. This causes no end of trouble in debates with religious folk(most of them christians), and the first question they ask is: "You don't believe in God? Why?". Really I don't see that question worth asking at all. I should like to give a term to this--Amatheist /uh-MA-thee-ihst/.

Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.

I know one person who calls themself an apatheist, as in he really doesn't care about religion in general. I thought it was a made-up term until I saw other people using it on this forum. How does that sound?

[Stevil]

Yes, that is good. I am an amatheist.

This could get confusing.
An Amethyst is a beautiful crystal. Now I am not saying that you aren't beautiful and I am not saying that you don't have a special sparkle about you. But I doubt that you look like this


Does the term ignostic or apatheist fit?

[Ali]

I didn't think Wessik's post was confusing either.  I get it.  Defining yourself as an atheist still sort of brings religion into your identity, where maybe it doesn't really have a place there.  I don't like the term apatheist though because I don't really consider myself to be apathetic.  Ignostic doesn't really fit either - I like the idea of tripping up theists by making them provide a coherent definition of god as a debate tactic, but it doesn't really describe my thoughts on the topic in a very meaningful way.  I think I prefer to be an amethyst.  They are pretty.

[The Magic Pudding]

I see that English is not your first language and I'm assuming that you used a computer program to translate your thoughts from, possibly German, to English. Please do not misconstrue my intentions, I am trying to help, your posting however, is confusing.

I find the confusion confusing, Wessik's use of language is fine, I have no problem with it at all.  It seems to be the writing of a well educated person.  ???

[Anne D.]

Welcome, fellow relative newbie. Very much agree with your comments re: the direction politics have taken with regard to religion in the last decade or so. Given the current climate, it's totally galling (sp?) to hear certain Republicans talk about a "war on religion."