Passion of the Christ

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

Christians just use Jesus as a way to feel better after you sin.  :verysad:

It's ohkay, you have fellow heathens like myself to keep you company either way.  

[AnimatedDirt]

Somthing tells me you don't really think i have the truth and you are making fun of me.  

It's truth as you see it...and if discussing our differences without snide remarks, I can easily show how I do respect it.

[father nicetouch]

Somthing tells me you don't really think i have the truth and you are making fun of me.  

It's truth as you see it...and if discussing our differences without snide remarks, I can easily show how I do respect it.[/quote]                                                                                                  

 now, now, do not take my snide remarks as insults! Its all in good fun! I respect every bodies beliefs! Most of my family are christians and we get along just fine! "Animateddirt" i like the name! Very creative!

[AnimatedDirt]

now, now, do not take my snide remarks as insults! Its all in good fun! I respect every bodies beliefs! Most of my family are christians and we get along just fine! "Animateddirt" i like the name! Very creative!

This sounds a lot like the "I'm not racist...some of my best friends are Black" line.

[father nicetouch]

now, now, do not take my snide remarks as insults! Its all in good fun! I respect every bodies beliefs! Most of my family are christians and we get along just fine! "Animateddirt" i like the name! Very creative!

This sounds a lot like the "I'm not racist...some of my best friends are Black" line.

There you go! It's some thing like that! You got it!  

[AnimatedDirt]

now, now, do not take my snide remarks as insults! Its all in good fun! I respect every bodies beliefs! Most of my family are christians and we get along just fine! "Animateddirt" i like the name! Very creative!

This sounds a lot like the "I'm not racist...some of my best friends are Black" line.

There you go! It's some thing like that! You got it!  

Your "good fun" isn't respect at all, if it was, ad hominem attacks would be rampant as anyone could claim, "Oh come on, it's just all in good fun."

Don't take my snide remarks as insults!

(my emphasis)

snide, snidey
adjective- nasty, sneering, malicious, mean, cynical, unkind, hurtful, sarcastic, disparaging, spiteful, insinuating, scornful, shrewish, ill-natured He made a snide comment about her weight.

[/i][/color]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snide

When you, yourself, define the nature of your remarks, what am I to do?

[father nicetouch]

snide, snidey
adjective- nasty, sneering, malicious, mean, cynical, unkind, hurtful, sarcastic, disparaging, spiteful, insinuating, scornful, shrewish, ill-natured He made a snide comment about her weight.

[/i][/color]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snide

When you, yourself, define the nature of your remarks, what am I to do?

"Note to self: do not joke with "AnimatedDirt", not only uses the bible as a weapon but also the thesaurus!"

[McQ]

snide, snidey
adjective- nasty, sneering, malicious, mean, cynical, unkind, hurtful, sarcastic, disparaging, spiteful, insinuating, scornful, shrewish, ill-natured He made a snide comment about her weight.

[/i][/color]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snide

When you, yourself, define the nature of your remarks, what am I to do?

"Note to self: do not joke with "AnimatedDirt", not only uses the bible as a weapon but also the thesaurus!"

Note to those in this thread: Do not make ad hom attacks, and keep your discussions civil. Remember that simply trashing someone's points via insult is not civil discourse.

This thread has gone way off track anyway, so keep it to the discussion of the OP.

[AnimatedDirt]

"Note to self: do not joke with "AnimatedDirt", not only uses the bible as a weapon but also the thesaurus!"

By all means, use humor.  Just don't be snide or use ad hominem (type) attacks to make your point by taking a point completely out of context and obvious meaning.  I've slipped up and am not perfect in discussion.  But I must be more on my guard here as I hold a belief opposed to the vast majority on this forum.  If I slip, call me on it and I'll gladly and publically seek forgiveness for my insensitivity to your beliefs/thoughts/ideas/disbelief.

The Bible is not a weapon, but a basis of why I believe what I believe.

[father nicetouch]

Well, i ment on offense, animateddirt. Really. And like McQ said we did go off topic. So back to the topic in hand. If Jesus was real and died to pay for our sins, then why do we have to stay sin free? Would'nt his death be in vain if we didn't sin?

[Guest]

I have always been under the impression that Jesus's suffering mostly refers to something else than the actual bodily torture by the Romans? To the suffering under the weight of sins, perhaps? Or to the suffering he endured in Hell? In this light then, the movie, in concentrating in his earthly suffering, belittle's the meaning of the true passions of the Christ? At least some of my religiously inclined friends thought so.

[The Magic Pudding]

I have always been under the impression that Jesus's suffering mostly refers to something else than the actual bodily torture by the Romans? To the suffering under the weight of sins, perhaps? Or to the suffering he endured in Hell? In this light then, the movie, in concentrating in his earthly suffering, belittle's the meaning of the true passions of the Christ? At least some of my religiously inclined friends thought so.

Jesus went to hell?
How did I miss that?
I'd like to hear more about Jesus in hell.
What did he do to get himself there?
How did he get out?
Was he so boring or annoying Satan kicked him out?

[Guest]

I have always been under the impression that Jesus's suffering mostly refers to something else than the actual bodily torture by the Romans? To the suffering under the weight of sins, perhaps? Or to the suffering he endured in Hell? In this light then, the movie, in concentrating in his earthly suffering, belittle's the meaning of the true passions of the Christ? At least some of my religiously inclined friends thought so.

Jesus went to hell?
How did I miss that?
I'd like to hear more about Jesus in hell.
What did he do to get himself there?
How did he get out?
Was he so boring or annoying Satan kicked him out?

I'm not that familiar with the theology, but in any case I think it was more to do with spiritual suffering, rather than this ordinary kind, depicted and emphazised in the movie by Mel.

[AnimatedDirt]

Jesus went to hell?
How did I miss that?
I'd like to hear more about Jesus in hell.
What did he do to get himself there?
How did he get out?
Was he so boring or annoying Satan kicked him out?

To many in the Christian faith, Hell is a place of perpetual agony and rightly so, it does seem to be so from some passages of scripture.  However, no where is it more clear on what "hell" is than in texts that don't necessarily seem to be speaking of hell exactly.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is quite clear that while hell is real, it is not for perpetual agony, but brings about infinite death.  Hell brings about death and ultimately total and complete separation from that which gives life.  God.

In this sense, Christ did go to hell.  He "ministered" to the saints in hell in that through His death brought life and made their faith in a coming Messiah, complete.  No longer were they abandoned to hell (the grave), but now, while still dead and in the grave, were assured a part in Christ's coming when He will resurrect those that died with faith in Him/His death for them.

I hope this helps, The Magic Pudding.  

[AnimatedDirt]

Well, i ment on offense, animateddirt. Really. And like McQ said we did go off topic. So back to the topic in hand. If Jesus was real and died to pay for our sins, then why do we have to stay sin free? Would'nt his death be in vain if we didn't sin?

This is a good question and one, I think, deserves an answer.

The short answer is we can't even stay sin-free if we wanted to.  

It's much like a son or daughter going out and spending mom and/or dad's money irresponsibly.  Maxing out credit cards, driving irresponsibly, maybe a drunk driving charge...so on.  The parent(s) can and might come and pay everything off for their child and the child should appreciate it and learn.  (making this short as it can drag)  Let's say the child does this again and again the parent(s) come and pay for their child's irresponsibility.  Shouldn't the child have learned their lesson?  If they had truly been sorry for their actions the first time, one might assume it wouldn't happen again.  Ok, so let's give the child the benefit of the doubt.  The parent(s) pay the second time because they love their child.  The child says sorry and repents that what they've done.  Time goes on and guess what, the child does it again only this time the the parent(s) is barely able to cover the debt.  Not only is the child spending money irresponsibly, but the child is falling deeper and deeper into some bad areas.  The parent(s) again pay it all for their child and at the same time, are ruinning their own living by constantly saving this child.  Why?  They must love this child more than the pain, grief, and monetary cost to them.

This cycle keeps going on and on.  What are your thoughts concerning the "sorry-ness" of the child in doing what he/she is doing?  Is there any real repentance on their part?  What is the right thing for the child to do?

The point is, not that the child will never ever slip up again on irresponsible spending or bad decisons in life.  The point is that the trend SHOULD curve away from that which is not right.  If, then, Christ paid a one time fee that pays for every single sin of humanity from beginning to end, past, present and future sins, is it not correct that the recipient of this gift, if truly repentant would at least show a trend to being less sinful?  If you've ever been a Christian, you'll know that we are never free from sin.  It is part of our nature and cannot remove sin at all.  So while we are yet sinners, Christ covers us.  We can only be covered if we take His death as our own and show a trend that we truly believe it.  Will we continue to sin?  Yes.  Will we even continue to sin knowing we are sinning?  Yes.  However, we cannot and should not have the trend show that we sin JUST BECAUSE our sin is paid for.  That would show we are much like the child that continues to bleed their parent(s) of money and peace of mind.

Is it a matter of brownie points, tic marks on a ledger sheet, the good outnumbering the bad....?  No.  Evidence for this?  The thief on the cross.  For his whole life (assuming) he was what he is.  A thief.  Being on the cross means he was guilty and deserved what society sentenced him to.  But he came to his senses.  Saw his own deceit and repented of his sin, putting his faith in Christ.  As long as it is a true repentance, deathbed confessions are worthy of salvation.  It seems unfair.  It might be to the human mind not knowing another's mind.  If God created us, then only He knows the heart's true intentions.  

Would'nt his death be in vain if we didn't sin?

Christ's death would be in vain if we did as the child did.  It means we never really loved and cherished our parent(s) but instead saw them as simply a means to get me out of my own irresponsible actions that I love more than I love them.  This would be proof of where our heart truly is.

The analogy isn't perfect, however I think it gives a good basis for answering your question.