Some quotes from Jesus about everlasting life

[Stevil]

Wait, who was speaking to burning trees? o_o!

Whoops, just looked it up, that was Moses the guy that commands armies to rape little girls.

Sorry my bad

[The Magic Pudding]

Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."
Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.
He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."
Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

This Jesus guy sounds a total jerk.
"And her daughter was healed from that very hour," ye sure, so his publicists say.
Jesus seems to change his mind like a fallible human, and for such a crappy reason.
Arise fawning sycophant for you are blessed.

So what's year 0032 demon possession?  
It's misdiagnosed mental illness isn't it.
So this mother throws herself at the feet of every passing pretender.
I wouldn't find this crap so annoying if it wasn't still happening.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I dunno, I just assume most Christians think I'm going to hell. Because I really don't know how else they can reconcile so many non-believers (who are aware of Jesus) in the world with their faith. "You're going to hell" isn't a cordial thing to actually say to someone, but I don't know that we can expect theists to not incorporate the idea into their worldview. Yeah, it's an offensive idea to us as Atheists, but I wasn't really offended by AD's comment. He didn't say "oh, someday you'll know I'm right when you're writhing in flames lol", he just said that I used free will to "decline" an offer. His interpretation of that "offer" (he thinks it's a legit offer, whereas I don't) is different, but the premise is the same.

There might have been a slight connotation from him that I was acknowledging that the offer was coming from God - which I obviously deny, but I don't think it was anything too grievous and I don't even know if it was intentional on his part. He has to interpret it from a Christian worldview and we have to interpret it from an Atheist worldview. We should try to keep civil with one another, but it might be a bit much to hope that Christians will think and speak exactly like atheists.

[Stevil]

We should try to keep civil with one another, but it might be a bit much to hope that Christians will think and speak exactly like atheists.

I really don't mind Christians talking like Christians. I mean, they can tell me that they prayed for a sunny day on their wedding day. Or they can tell me that they prayed for a friend to get better from an illness. They can tell me that they believe they are going to heaven and are going to live forever by Jesus' side. I don't mind that stuff.

When they start telling me that I ought to believe in their god, that I ought to not accept euthanasia because their god doesn't like it then that is really annoying.

But when they start saying that I am going to hell. That is completely over the top. They are saying that they want me to be tortured, that they want me to be annihilated and that the god they praise will be their hero and will do this stuff to me simply because I don't believe in it. In a way they are threatening me, in a way they are painting me and all atheists out to be scum worthy of annihilation. The arrogance of some Christians I find intolerable.

I believe that a truly decent Christian ought to go home and in the privacy of their home pray to their god not to do terrible things to the unbeliever. They ought to try and convince their god that unbelievers are wonderful people, instead of this gloating/warning rubbish they do in our faces.

I know AD wasn't directing his comment at me, he was directing it at you. But I felt it was unacceptable. Us atheists need to stand up for ourselves and tell these people to sort their own house out rather than worrying about us. It is this public judgment that creates hate.
Why do you think atheists are one of the most hated groups of people in America? It is certainly not because of our actions.

Passively we are an easy target, we ought to stand up for ourselves, at least some of the time.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Passively we are an easy target, we ought to stand up for ourselves, at least some of the time.

I get that and part of why I may feel this way is because I have the luxury of living in a place where religion is, largely, a non-issue. I also used to be Catholic and still have a lot of Catholic family, so I admit that I tend to be a bit passive about this and maybe it's not always a good thing. I think the thing is, to me, having a Christian pray that God blesses me and my family with rainbows and buckets of gold is just as ridiculous as having them smarmily tell me I'm going to hell.  

Now, yes, I think the Christian who chooses to tell me they're going to "pray for me" (in a non-patronizing tone) is probably nicer than the Christian who chooses to tell me that I'm going to hell. But on a fundamental, theological, level all Christians probably believe in the validity of those two things and I expect it to peek out every now and again. I used to be a Christian who genuinely believed and worried that people I loved were going to hell; I honestly didn't want it to happen and didn't wish it on any of them, but I believed it. I felt like I had to and it was a kind of on-going mental torture.

So that might be why I cut Christians a bit of slack on this, as well. I honestly feel kind of bad for them. It sucks to really like someone, feel like something horrible has to happened to them, and to not be able to do anything about it.

[xSilverPhinx]

For anyone who wants to accept Christ as your savior to receive everlasting life, you can pray to him, confess you are a sinner and tell him you accept his sacrifice on the cross for your sins so that you saved from them. Then it's good to be active in your faith by being baptized,joining a church,reading the word,  and continuing to pray. Christ is the lord in heaven now

Eternal life is worth the effort.

Yeah, because the only reason we could be atheists is because we're lazy. I know all the secrets of the universe now thanks to you.

Thanks but no thanks, I don't want to take the first steps towards considering myself a member of that cult, and I think that being called a 'sheep' is particularly offensive...

[xSilverPhinx]

Actuallly, it's worth remembering that if we were to take all religions into account, everyone is going to hell. People just don't like to think that they're going to hell and that their religion is, in fact, the true one. Without more or less proof, of course...just belief.

[Sandra Craft]

For anyone who wants to accept Christ as your savior to receive everlasting life, you can pray to him, confess you are a sinner and tell him you accept his sacrifice on the cross for your sins so that you saved from them. Then it's good to be active in your faith by being baptized,joining a church,reading the word,  and continuing to pray. Christ is the lord in heaven now

Eternal life is worth the effort.

Yeah, because the only reason we could be atheists is because we're lazy. I know all the secrets of the universe now thanks to you.

Thanks but no thanks, I don't want to take the first steps towards considering myself a member of that cult, and I think that being called a 'sheep' is particularly offensive...

You know, even when I was trying to be a Xtian, and then just trying to be religious, eternal life never interested me, and the continuous fuss about it was one of those things I never understood about Xtianity.  I can understand not wanting to die (at least not until I'm actually tired of living), but making up stories about death not being "really real" just seems childish, and going around trying to convince yourself of such nonsense by convincing other people is pathetic. 

It also seems like an insult to Xtianity, which while no longer of any importance to me, I'd imagine would be worth more to Xtians than just a trade-off for a ticket to Nevernever Land.  But then maybe all this is just what made my atheism inevitable.

[Stevil]

Now, yes, I think the Christian who chooses to tell me they're going to "pray for me" (in a non-patronizing tone) is probably nicer than...

I was suggesting they do the prayer without telling you about it. Behind closed doors or just silently inside their head, just them and their belief in god.
Like they might pray for people that are physically dying, here they might be praying for people that are spiritually "dying" whatever that means.

I mean, if they have the urge to help and are feeling compelled into action. Then isn't prayer the avenue for things that they have no physical influence on?
As long as they don't tell you about it, then it is not patronising, it isn't some dishonest approach to convince you to become a Christian.

I used to be a Christian who genuinely believed and worried that people I loved were going to hell; I honestly didn't want it to happen and didn't wish it on any of them, but I believed it. I felt like I had to and it was a kind of on-going mental torture.

I hear what you are saying. It's how they have been taught to think, I guess, and their empathy or compassion eats them up.
Do they realise they are being disrespectful to the person that does not hold the same belief as themselves? Implying god's hell or god's annihilation is a form of mental coercion, do they realise they are doing this?

[DeterminedJuliet]

I used to be a Christian who genuinely believed and worried that people I loved were going to hell; I honestly didn't want it to happen and didn't wish it on any of them, but I believed it. I felt like I had to and it was a kind of on-going mental torture.

I hear what you are saying. It's how they have been taught to think, I guess, and their empathy or compassion eats them up.
Do they realise they are being disrespectful to the person that does not hold the same belief as themselves? Implying god's hell or god's annihilation is a form of mental coercion, do they realise they are doing this?

Some of them, yes. But many, no. I think. I think a lot of them are so wound up in trying to reconcile all of the inconsistencies in the doctrines in their own head that they don't even realize that they aren't being fair to other people. Or they just take an "ends justify the means" approach by telling themselves that it's better that they offend some atheists now if it means that it saves them later - not exactly a respectful approach, but well-intentioned to varying degrees.

I always think of my (very Catholic) father when it comes to this sort of thing. I'm positive that my Dad believes I've damned my son, his adorable and innocent grand-child, to purgatory/hell because I didn't get him baptized. He's never said anything to me about it, but I just know he believes it because this is the same man that dragged me kicking and screaming to get confirmed. Does he think my son really deserves hell? No! He's the cutest, sweetest toddler you could imagine. But he believes that's what I've done to him. He can't blame God for my son's fate because he just can't - he has 55 years of indoctrination that tells him that it's our fault and not God's fault. Dad's an otherwise pretty good person, but he is in a position where he has to believe horrible things will happen to someone he loves because of a choice by someone he loves. That's some pretty horrible mental coercion in its own right and I can't help but feel pretty badly for him. 

Does it make me feel badly enough to get my son baptized? No. But it's got to suck as a Grandfather and it is a bit of an elaboration as to why I feel a bit sympathetic about the whole thing. I don't know if you've ever been religious yourself, Stevil, but I really think it can damage people. We criticize Christians a lot for "picking and choosing", but when it comes to hell, I honestly don't think that most of them feel like a belief in hell is anything of a choice. It's why I haven't told my Dad outright that I'm an atheist (though I have a feeling he probably knows) - it's not because I'm ashamed or that I think he's right, and if he ever asks me directly, I'll tell him the truth. But I don't bring it up on my own volition because I feel so badly for him. I don't want to inflict that kind of mental anguish on him.

[Stevil]

But I don't bring it up on my own volition because I feel so badly for him. I don't want to inflict that kind of mental anguish on him.

I'm not sure that you give your dad enough credit.
I see those traits in my wife sometimes, she makes decisions based on what she thinks is best for me rather than asking me for my opinion.

I'm a straight up guy, as you can probably tell.
But I must admit, my wife is a much better people person than I am.

I am a bit conflicted on whether I should adopt more tact or continue being straight up.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Haha, that's okay, I often wonder if I try too much to be tactful and should be more straight up.

[Tank]

A quote from me on everlasting life:

"I politely decline the offer."

Noted.  To decline is to have acknowledged the offer = Freewill.

Here we go, AD justifying in his mind that DJ now gets "justifiably" condemned to imaginary hell, and very (imaginary) Christ like of you to express this to DJ. I'm sure you will be BFF now, well at least until she gets annihilated by your loving god. LOL

Ad Hom.

AD in future if you feel something is an ad Hom, then report the post. Do not make a comment in the thread please. - Tank

[Sandra Craft]

A quote from me on everlasting life:

"I politely decline the offer."

Noted.  To decline is to have acknowledged the offer = Freewill.

Actually, it only acknowledges that you think there's an offer on the table.  It's not an expression of free will so much as being as considerate of your feelings as possible under the circumstances. 

(altho I really think it shouldn't need to be explained, the "you" here refers to whoever is making such an offer, not to AD personally)

[AnimatedDirt]

I'm not sure if you realise how offensive your statement was. I don't know how DJ took it but personally, I don't like to see a person pointing at people and telling them they are going to hell.

I said no such thing...

Although atheists don't believe these statements, they are offensive anyway.

Just so I understand...I'll have to assume this is you speaking personally since you don't know if DJ was offended at this point.

Are you saying that you disbelieve in Christianity...that it is hogwash...fairytales...fiction...of the deluded, BUT that you're offended by someone thinking/saying to you, "You're going to hell." ??

It would be like telling a new mother than she is a bad mother because she is unable to breastfeed. The mother ought not to believe the accuser because they are not in a position to judge. But the very act of judging (whether true or not) is very offensive.
This judgement is one of the main reasons atheists have an issue with religion.

I hardly see the analogy, but I'm more concerned about how you are offended by fairytales.

If you want to build bridges rather than dig chasms then you are better to show the value of Christianity rather than to offer direct examples of the negative side. You cannot convince us to join the dark side by instilling fear or guilt. It won't work on us. Think compassion and love rather than judgment and damnation.

I neither judged nor damned DJ.  I simply "noted" her choice in the matter of fairytale.  My point was that she made a statement of choice on the matter of a fairytale claim.

Ultimately the value of Christianity is a matter of life or death.  The chasm is the elephant in the room.  I may not agree with those that point out the "hell" aspect as judgemental and a putting down of another, but I do acknowledge the elephant.  Hell is part of the story.