Does John 14:1 imply that Jesus is separate from God?

[Thunder Road]

http://bible.cc/john/14-1.htm

The fact that Jesus commands his followers to believe/trust in both god AND him.


I danced around this a bit for a paper for a class last fall (that wasn't even a theology class either) but I was curious what others think of it.

[Asmodean]

Maybe he didn't believe his own story? 

[Guardian85]

Well, we know that the divinity of Jesus wasn't the established doctrine until centuries after the alledged events of his life. This, in conjunction with the verse, would suggest that Jesus thought he was seperate from, and working for Yahwee. That is how the muslims view Jesus, as a prophet rather then a messiah.

[Ali]

I think Mark 16:19 is a better example.

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Being able to sit to the right of yourself is quite a trick!

[statichaos]

The original Unitarians and Arian Christians saw them as separate beings.  As already stated, trinitarianism was a comparatively late development.

[Sweetdeath]

I think Mark 16:19 is a better example.

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Being able to sit to the right of yourself is quite a trick!

Is that   masturbation? XD

[Egor]

http://bible.cc/john/14-1.htm

The fact that Jesus commands his followers to believe/trust in both god AND him.


I danced around this a bit for a paper for a class last fall (that wasn't even a theology class either) but I was curious what others think of it.

Jesus spoke both dualistically and monistically about God. This was a theological and philosophical problem for me for quite some time. Then I realized there is a kind of manufactured dualism, an illusion that naturally occurs when consciousness projects itself, or an attribute of consciousness is projected, toward a modality of that attribute. In other words: The world appears dualistic, but in ultimate reality it is not.

I used to wonder if Jesus knew this or was simply unsophisticated in the concept of dualism vs. monism. Then I realized that if he hadn't spoken of God in both ways, I would not have been forced to reconcile the differences. When I reconcilled the differences, I grew tremendously in my faith. Once again, it seems Jesus knew what he was doing.

This verse forces one to examine the issue.

[Thunder Road]

http://bible.cc/john/14-1.htm

The fact that Jesus commands his followers to believe/trust in both god AND him.


I danced around this a bit for a paper for a class last fall (that wasn't even a theology class either) but I was curious what others think of it.

Jesus spoke both dualistically and monistically about God. This was a theological and philosophical problem for me for quite some time. Then I realized there is a kind of manufactured dualism, an illusion that naturally occurs when consciousness projects itself, or an attribute of consciousness is projected, toward a modality of that attribute. In other words: The world appears dualistic, but in ultimate reality it is not.

I used to wonder if Jesus knew this or was simply unsophisticated in the concept of dualism vs. monism. Then I realized that if he hadn't spoken of God in both ways, I would not have been forced to reconcile the differences. When I reconcilled the differences, I grew tremendously in my faith. Once again, it seems Jesus knew what he was doing.

This verse forces one to examine the issue.

So you believe that Jesus said that ambiguous statement just to test you, and thereby convince you of your faith?

I'll admit I really don't get what you're talking about when you reference dualism, but doesn't it make much more sense to think that when Jesus said he is separate from god, he actually meant it?  And not to think that it's a well-crafted theological trap that caused a person to think and develop their own interpretation?

[Guardian85]

http://bible.cc/john/14-1.htm

The fact that Jesus commands his followers to believe/trust in both god AND him.


I danced around this a bit for a paper for a class last fall (that wasn't even a theology class either) but I was curious what others think of it.

Jesus spoke both dualistically and monistically about God. This was a theological and philosophical problem for me for quite some time. Then I realized there is a kind of manufactured dualism, an illusion that naturally occurs when consciousness projects itself, or an attribute of consciousness is projected, toward a modality of that attribute. In other words: The world appears dualistic, but in ultimate reality it is not.

I used to wonder if Jesus knew this or was simply unsophisticated in the concept of dualism vs. monism. Then I realized that if he hadn't spoken of God in both ways, I would not have been forced to reconcile the differences. When I reconcilled the differences, I grew tremendously in my faith. Once again, it seems Jesus knew what he was doing.

This verse forces one to examine the issue.

So you believe that Jesus said that ambiguous statement just to test you, and thereby convince you of your faith?

I'll admit I really don't get what you're talking about when you reference dualism, but doesn't it make much more sense to think that when Jesus said he is separate from god, he actually meant it?  And not to think that it's a well-crafted theological trap that caused a person to think and develop their own interpretation?

All other things being equal, the simpler explenation is generally the better.

[Asherah]

That's not the only verse that implies they were separate.

Jesus says "My God, My God why have you forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46 ). How can God forsake himself?

Jesus also said he doesn't know the time of his return, only the father knows. How can God have knowledge of something, but not Jesus? (Matt 24:36)

There is a verse that says he is here to do the will of his Father. Why did he not say that he is here to do his will?