The Argument from Truth

[MadBomr101]

Egor's comments are representative of someone not taking his meds.

Not necessarily, this may be medicated Egor.

hmmmm, Point taken.  It could go either way.

[Tank]

Are Egor's arguments representative of common believer psychology?

Egor's comments are representative of someone not taking his meds.

MadBomr101

This is getting very close to uncivil.

[Tank]

Egor's comments are representative of someone not taking his meds.

Not necessarily, this may be medicated Egor.

The Magic Pudding

Close to the edge there.

[MadBomr101]

Okay

[xSilverPhinx]

Embracing ignorance? The arrogance you radiate is nauseating.

But I'm born again through faith. I would say my arrogance is justified. I am, after all, part of the royal court of God. I mean that's a fact.

Humble...that's also a fact

[Egor]

Oh really? So, truth existed before there was physical life in the universe? Be careful now, don't fall into any traps!  

Yes. Things exist whether you're around to see them or not. Physical laws existed before humans, before all life.
And your premise is flawed so badly it doesn't hold up to even a moment's scrutiny.

Waste of time? Then why are you in here typing?

To demonstrate what a foolish thing you are arguing for, and to let you know that you aren't saying anything useful. Also to see if you can do better than to plug your ears and say, "Nahahahaha...ICAN'THEARYOU!", which is all you're doing now.

So, start over, without a failed premise. Otherwise you're just trolling. It's that obvious.

And here we go.

I'm doing my best to have a civil freaking discussion about the existence of God and all of the sudden, out of nowhere, a grand moderator appears and starts making an obvious black ball, straw man "trolling" accusation. I'm not trolling, and you know it. You just want to put an end to this discussion because you can't intellectually handle it and you see the principle of atheism beginning to weaken.

Here is what I said. And you know this is not the statement of a troll. But you go right ahead and ban me if that's what you feel you have to do to protect your forum.

So let me say that existence requires meaning. Because if you are the only conscious thing in a black infinite space, and floating next to you is a wooden block. If you disappear, if your consciousness is extinguished, the block of wood loses all meaning. But what that implies is that it becomes everything and nothing at the same time. It no longer is a block of wood. It is as much a pink elephant as it is a cat as it is a cup as it is a block of wood. It's essence is without definition. To say a thing can exist without definition is an absurd statement.

After you are gone, the block of wood can only remain in existence if there is an overarching consciousness to give it definition.

My claim is that was the state of the universe before there was physical life in it.

As for those who made concerted efforts to address this, I will address them in my blog. I will not reply anymore in this post just to prove to you that I am not trolling. I know the game. When the moderator starts getting nervous, it's best to just let things cool down. And that's what I'm going to do. Or I'll be banned, won't I?

I'd say that's a victory, McQ. Wouldn't you?

[Stevil]

If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, does it make a sound?

[xSilverPhinx]

You just want to put an end to this discussion because you can't intellectually handle it and you see the principle of atheism beginning to weaken.

I think that now you're really starting to flatter yourself, Egor

Dunning–Kruger effect

[Tank]

Egor has told me he is taking a break so don't expect any replies in the near future.

[Gawen]

Egor has told me he is taking a break so don't expect any replies in the near future.

Good, because I was wondering why this thread stayed at the top. As far as I'm concerned, the discussion is closed until Egor can verify to us the existence of his God.

And we all know he can't do that.

[Whitney]

Egor has told me he is taking a break so don't expect any replies in the near future.

That was probably a good choice because if I see him falsely claim he's about to be banned one more time he will be.

[Asmodean]

Egor has told me he is taking a break so don't expect any replies in the near future.

That was probably a good choice because if I see him falsely claim he's about to be banned one more time he will be.

But... But... He REALLY wanted to be a martyr! 

[Tank]

Egor has told me he is taking a break so don't expect any replies in the near future.

That was probably a good choice because if I see him falsely claim he's about to be banned one more time he will be.

Good thing he didn't send you the PM then 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

So let me say that existence requires meaning. Because if you are the only conscious thing in a black infinite space, and floating next to you is a wooden block. If you disappear, if your consciousness is extinguished, the block of wood loses all meaning. But what that implies is that it becomes everything and nothing at the same time. It no longer is a block of wood. It is as much a pink elephant as it is a cat as it is a cup as it is a block of wood. It's essence is without definition. To say a thing can exist without definition is an absurd statement.

And here is where we disagree and will always disagree.  You are mixing terms like "real" and "exist" and "meaning," and in the process you are attempting to win the argument by definition and confusion.  The block of wood would exist and be real even if there were no consciousness to perceive it, name it, or define it. It might not be called a "block of wood," but it would exist as matter organized in a particular manner regardless.  You simply can't prove your premise that existence or reality requires consciousness.  So your argument fails.

You previously agreed with me that the existence or non-existence of God cannot be established by logical argument alone. So why are you attempting to do that?

[Guardian85]

As for those who made concerted efforts to address this, I will address them in my blog. I will not reply anymore in this post just to prove to you that I am not trolling. I know the game. When the moderator starts getting nervous, it's best to just let things cool down. And that's what I'm going to do. Or I'll be banned, won't I?

I'd say that's a victory, McQ. Wouldn't you?

And yet again, rather then honestly conceding defeat, Egor portrays himself as both the victim and victor and proclaims that he is not retreating; he is continuing his glorious advance in a different direction!

The military technical term for which is : Running like hell!