Finally some Good news

[Stevil]

But of course, we knew this all along

Religion set for extinction in NZ, says US study
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10714235

[Tank]

Here is the full research paper http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/101 ... 1375v2.pdf

It makes very interesting reading.

[Cecilie]

43 per cent of children under 15 years were recorded as having no religion, compared with 11.8 per cent of people aged 65 years or older.

Doesn't surprise me, but sure looks promising.

[fester30]

If we could only add USA to the list of 9!  Maybe I've been a bit too harsh on Canada throughout my lifetime.  Before now, I just didn't see any reason for the USA not to annex Canada.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/23/losing-religion-study-finds-religion-extinct-parts-world/?test=latestnews
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1012/1012.1375v2.pdf

[iSok]

Isn't massive apostasy within Christianity a sign of the end of the world?

[LegendarySandwich]

Isn't massive apostasy within Christianity a sign of the end of the world?

It's also a sign that we're progressing.

In any case, it isn't massive sudden apostasy that's happening. What's happening is a slow deconversion process occurring in society as a whole.

[Tank]

Isn't massive apostasy within Christianity a sign of the end of the world?

Only if you believe in the ancient mythology of an institutionalised superstition  

[iSok]

Isn't massive apostasy within Christianity a sign of the end of the world?

Only if you believe in the ancient mythology of an institutionalised superstition  
(Since we accept Christianity as a belief from God)

EDIT: Out of curiousity, I looked up what the 'signs of the end' were according to Islam, it's a whole list...
Some of them do look interesting.


   1. The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
   2. Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low (Ahmad)
   3. Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (Muhammad said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim)
   4. When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (Muhammad said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)
  5. Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
   6. The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)
   7. Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
   8. Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
   9. The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but "like the foam of the sea".
  10. People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim)?
  11. The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  12. Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  13. Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  14. Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  15. Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  16. When a trust becomes a means of making a profit (at-Tirmidhi, Al-Haythami)
  17. Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor (at-Tirmidhi)
  18. Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly (at-Tirmidhi & Al-Haythami)
  19. Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
  20. Episodes of sudden death will become widespread (Ahmad)
  21. There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret (He was asked how that would come about and replied, "Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings and at the      same time will fear one another.") (at-Tirmidhi)
  22. When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
  23. When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
  24. People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
 25. Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
  26. The people of Iraq will receive no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
 27. People will hop between the clouds and the earth
  28. A tribulation will enter everyone's home (Ahmad)
  29. The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
  30. Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
  31. People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do (at-Tirmidhi)
  32. Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
  33. Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
  34. When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
  35. People will dance late into the night
  36. When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
  37. People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)
  38. People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
  39. People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
  40. Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
  41. Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
 42. Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
  43. People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
  44. Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad & Bukhari)
  45. A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
  46. Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari & Muslim)
  47. There will be attempts to make the deserts green
  48. The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
 49. Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
  50. The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
  51. The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa'i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
 52. When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
  53. There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
  54. The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (Muhammad said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari & Muslim)
  55. Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari & Muslim)
  56. Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
 57. A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
  58. Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
  59. Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami & Ahmad)
 60. When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)
  61. Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
 62. A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
  63. Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  64. Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
  65. There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
  66. There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
  67. People will refuse when offered food.
 68. Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men.

[Ihateyoumike]

[spoiler:246z011j]

Isn't massive apostasy within Christianity a sign of the end of the world?

Only if you believe in the ancient mythology of an institutionalised superstition  
(Since we accept Christianity as a belief from God)

EDIT: Out of curiousity, I looked up what the 'signs of the end' were according to Islam, it's a whole list...
Some of them do look interesting.


   1. The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
   2. Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low (Ahmad)
   3. Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (Muhammad said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim)
   4. When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (Muhammad said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)
  5. Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
   6. The consumption of intoxicants will be widespread (Bukhari & Muslim)
   7. Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
   8. Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
   9. The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but "like the foam of the sea".
  10. People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim)?
  11. The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  12. Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  13. Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  14. Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  15. Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  16. When a trust becomes a means of making a profit (at-Tirmidhi, Al-Haythami)
  17. Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor (at-Tirmidhi)
  18. Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly (at-Tirmidhi & Al-Haythami)
  19. Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
  20. Episodes of sudden death will become widespread (Ahmad)
  21. There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret (He was asked how that would come about and replied, "Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings and at the      same time will fear one another.") (at-Tirmidhi)
  22. When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
  23. When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
  24. People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
 25. Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
  26. The people of Iraq will receive no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
 27. People will hop between the clouds and the earth
  28. A tribulation will enter everyone's home (Ahmad)
  29. The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
  30. Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
  31. People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do (at-Tirmidhi)
  32. Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
  33. Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
  34. When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
  35. People will dance late into the night
  36. When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
  37. People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)
  38. People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
  39. People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
  40. Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
  41. Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
 42. Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
  43. People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons
  44. Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad & Bukhari)
  45. A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
  46. Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari & Muslim)
  47. There will be attempts to make the deserts green
  48. The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
 49. Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
  50. The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
  51. The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa'i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
 52. When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
  53. There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
  54. The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (Muhammad said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari & Muslim)
  55. Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari & Muslim)
  56. Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
 57. A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
  58. Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
  59. Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami & Ahmad)
 60. When men lie with men and women lie with women (Al-Haythami)
  61. Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
 62. A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
  63. Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  64. Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
  65. There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
  66. There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
  67. People will refuse when offered food.
 68. Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men.

[/spoiler:246z011j]

None of that is very interesting to me at all.

[fester30]

Isn't massive apostasy within Christianity a sign of the end of the world?

Only if you believe in the ancient mythology of an institutionalised superstition  
(Since we accept Christianity as a belief from God)

EDIT: Out of curiousity, I looked up what the 'signs of the end' were according to Islam, it's a whole list...
Some of them do look interesting.


     4. When fornication becomes widespread among your leaders (Muhammad said that this will happen when the people stop forbidding evil) (Ibn Majah)
   7. Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
12. Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
13. Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
    24. People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
  26. The people of Iraq will receive no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
  29. The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
   33. Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
  34. When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
  38. People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
    47. There will be attempts to make the deserts green
   49. Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
  50. The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
  51. The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa'i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
  55. Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari & Muslim)
   68. Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men.

I'm interested in this stuff.  It's interesting to read about what other people believe.  That way if I'm ever in a place where children stink (#12) or women are in a group talking in quiet vioces and giggling (#13) I can sound smart when I point out to someone that these are signs of the end of the world in Islam.

#4... In Saudi Arabia, several members of the royal family have drank alcohol, used drugs, and visited prostitutes.  
#7... WOOHOOO can't wait!
#24... And I don't care who doesn't want to see my pale thighs.
#26... Still waiting for this one as Europe hasn't occupied Iraq in a very long time to my knowledge.
#29... I am not yet the leader of a people, so we got a ways to go on this one.
#33... Are both the singers and musical instruments female here, or is it female singers playing musical instruments?  Joan Baez, Tori Amos, Jewel, Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, and one that is a certain sign of the apocalypse: Rihanna.
#34... Ever been to a karaoke bar?
#38... There's a horoscope in the newspaper every day.
#47... In Kuwait and Qatar, the rich neighborhoods have a lot of grass alongside the main roads and other areas.
#49... So you're saying xray glasses or airport scanners?  If it's airport scanners, those pictures are decidedly not sexy and wouldn't lead me astray.
#50... You forgot to highlight this one.  Constantinople is now Istanbul in Turkey, a country that was taken over by Muslims a long time ago.
#51... India is converting to Islam at a very fast pace.
#55... This is happening as well... Shia and Sunni.
#68... This started happening when men wearing dresses was the height of fashion back in the Victorian era.

[iSok]

I'm interested in this stuff.  It's interesting to read about what other people believe.  That way if I'm ever in a place where children stink (#12) or women are in a group talking in quiet vioces and giggling (#13) I can sound smart when I point out to someone that these are signs of the end of the world in Islam.

#4... In Saudi Arabia, several members of the royal family have drank alcohol, used drugs, and visited prostitutes.  
#7... WOOHOOO can't wait!
#24... And I don't care who doesn't want to see my pale thighs.
#26... Still waiting for this one as Europe hasn't occupied Iraq in a very long time to my knowledge.
#29... I am not yet the leader of a people, so we got a ways to go on this one.
#33... Are both the singers and musical instruments female here, or is it female singers playing musical instruments?  Joan Baez, Tori Amos, Jewel, Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, and one that is a certain sign of the apocalypse: Rihanna.
#34... Ever been to a karaoke bar?
#38... There's a horoscope in the newspaper every day.
#47... In Kuwait and Qatar, the rich neighborhoods have a lot of grass alongside the main roads and other areas.
#49... So you're saying xray glasses or airport scanners?  If it's airport scanners, those pictures are decidedly not sexy and wouldn't lead me astray.
#50... You forgot to highlight this one.  Constantinople is now Istanbul in Turkey, a country that was taken over by Muslims a long time ago.
#51... India is converting to Islam at a very fast pace.
#55... This is happening as well... Shia and Sunni.
#68... This started happening when men wearing dresses was the height of fashion back in the Victorian era.

As a theist, the topic doesn't interest me much, I was curious what Islam thought of it, I never really looked into till today.
I believe it will happen, I just don't know when. It may happen tommorow or 1000 years later.
While we are on it, some ofthem are interesting, I'll try to point out a few that were not common during our history.

3. Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (Muhammad said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim)
5. Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open (This is quite common now, never happened during our history, sexual revolution in the seventies)
9. The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but "like the foam of the sea".
I guess that during the crusades, the muslims were in trouble, also
14. Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim) (Pollution)
24. People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
25. Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time (Speaks for itself)
26. The people of Iraq will receive no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
27. People will hop between the clouds and the earth (Airplanes)
37. People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood) (Quran-Only movement recently started)
42. Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing (Pollution, many cities in Asia)
45. A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari) (depression, 25% here in the Netherlands takes Prozac)
49. Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim) (Exploitment of women in the west)
52. When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari) (Speaks for itself)
57. A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad) (Mobile Phone, communication)
62. A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad) (Emancipation)
68. Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men.  (Current trend)


It's also interesting to point out that currently it's 1432 (Islamic calendar). I once read a book about the crisis among the Muslims during the
year 1000 (Islamic calendar), people then freaked out that the world would come to an end soon. One of the scholars back then examinded the Hadith
about it's signs and concluded that the first signs would appear in the 15th century (Islamic calendar). Currently it's 1432.

[xSilverPhinx]

Sign of the changing times.   Maybe the end really is in sight for these religious institutions!

[AnimatedDirt]

Sign of the changing times.   Maybe the end really is in sight for these religious institutions!

I hope so.  The sooner, the better.  Yes?

[AnimatedDirt]

But of course, we knew this all along

I agree...it's not really news.

[Whitney]

If I understand my end times schedule properly, this should be good news for those Christians who think the ball is already rolling towards the end of days.