Finally some Good news

[AreEl]

AreEl, you probably think that I am only born to kill (I am a crazy muslim terrorist).

No. I just think you are promoting - or attempting to explain - your religion. Islam is a cancer in the West and I have seen for myself the degeneration of various European countries as their Muslim population increases.*  This cancer is still small in the USA but will metastasize.

I don't see much difference between fat bhudda's or crucifixes. Both are a form of idol worship.
You place an idol in your house, and you kneel for the idol.

This why muslims are not allowed to draw the prophet, because it might lead to idol worship.
And this is pretty common among world religions.

When God sent Bhudda as a messenger, Bhudda is worshipped now.
When God sent people like Krishna or Ram, they are worshiped now in Hinduism. (The Hindu scriptures condemn idolworship, they say there is One God)
When God sent Jesus as a messenger, Jesus is now worshipped on a cross.

Actually, you don't know what you are talking about above. Allah never claimed to have sent Buddha or Krishna! Are you Ba'hai or Muslim?! Or are you just mixed up? Maybe you should stick to promoting Islam. It seems to me that I have a better grasp of the Qu'ran than you do.

But the good thing about Muslim societies is that you kill off all undesireable elements. I've got to hand it to you, you guys are efficient!

 

*Quick example: I first visited the Eiffel Tower 14 years ago (I was 40 at the time.)  Back then, I bought my ticket, waited in line, got on the elevator and went up. I usually travel to Europe with my wife but last year we hosted a couple of friends who had never been to Paris and wanted to see the Eiffel Tower. This time, I bought my ticket under the watchful eye of armed military and security personnel. Before I got in line, I had to pass through a metal detector. Then my bags were searched while Security watched. Then I passed through another metal detector. Then some individuals were taken aside and frisked. Then I passed through a third metal detector. All this time in line (one hour), we were watched by machine-gun toting military personnel. Thanks be to Allah and his prophet! (May he rot in hell.)

[Stevil]

iSok - are you feeling the Christian love yet?

[LegendarySandwich]

No. I just think you are promoting - or attempting to explain - your religion. Islam is a cancer in the West and I have seen for myself the degeneration of various European countries as their Muslim population increases.*  This cancer is still small in the USA but will metastasize.

Ah, here we go -- one religion demonizing another. Hey, guess what? All religions are cancers. Christianity calling Islam a disease is like one rapist calling another rapist a bad person.

Also, correlation does not imply causation.

*Quick example: I first visited the Eiffel Tower 14 years ago (I was 40 at the time.)  Back then, I bought my ticket, waited in line, got on the elevator and went up. I usually travel to Europe with my wife but last year we hosted a couple of friends who had never been to Paris and wanted to see the Eiffel Tower. This time, I bought my ticket under the watchful eye of armed military and security personnel. Before I got in line, I had to pass through a metal detector. Then my bags were searched while Security watched. Then I passed through another metal detector. Then some individuals were taken aside and frisked. Then I passed through a third metal detector. All this time in line (one hour), we were watched by machine-gun toting military personnel. Thanks be to Allah and his prophet! (May he rot in hell.)

First, anecdotal evidence, and a particularly weak anecdote as well. Second, what's your point?

[AreEl]

First, anecdotal evidence, and a particularly weak anecdote as well. Second, what's your point?

I have a lot more anecdotal evidence. You are unable understand my point.

iSok - are you feeling the Christian love yet?

I predict that atheists will side with iSok. Stevil and LegendarySandwich were first; who is next?

[Whitney]

I predict that atheists will side with iSok. Stevil and LegendarySandwich were first; who is next?

What are you considering his side?  

That crucifixes are idols....ya, I agree with that; very few christians utilize the cross symbol in a manner that doesn't idolize it.  

But there a lot of things iSok says that I don't agree with.

[Stevil]

I predict that atheists will side with iSok. Stevil and LegendarySandwich were first; who is next?

A prediction after the event, very nice.

Actually it is not about sides. I just happen to think you are represting the ugly side of Christianity.
If you focus more on love and tolerance and attempt to be non judgemental then you might be a much better ambassador for your own religion and chosen god.
If you have issues with Islam and Muslims then iSok is here with us on this forum and he is generally open to questions, so if you play nice and don't make these public attacks maybe you could learn something.

BTW The Christians have been guilty of mass killing too you know, Inquisitions, witch hunts, The great flood (if you believe this is true), the she bears maulling the cute little children, lets not mention Sodom and the persecution of homosexuals.
Basically the lesson would be, he who lives in a glass house should not through stones.
Or as your beloved bible puts it, judge not least ye be judged.

You become a much better person in life if you look for opportunities to learn rather than opportunities to insult and abuse.

[JoeBobSmith]

 

[JoeBobSmith]

it's always been this way...nothing new

[AreEl]

Actually it is not about sides. I just happen to think you are represting the ugly side of Christianity.
If you focus more on love and tolerance and attempt to be non judgemental then you might be a much better ambassador for your own religion and chosen god.
If you have issues with Islam and Muslims then iSok is here with us on this forum and he is generally open to questions, so if you play nice and don't make these public attacks maybe you could learn something.

You seem to be describing aspects of Buddhism. God does not command me to tolerate and be non-jugemental towards the lie that is Islam. Actually, I am to denounce all idolatries with vigor. As for love, you do have a point. Sometimes I lack tact.

What are you considering his side?

Coming to his defense after my hard and unsympathetic post about Islam.

[Whitney]

Coming to his defense after my hard and unsympathetic post about Islam.

Disagreeing with you isn't the same as siding with iSok...it's not like they suddenly all became followers of Islam.

[iSok]

Actually it is not about sides. I just happen to think you are represting the ugly side of Christianity.
If you focus more on love and tolerance and attempt to be non judgemental then you might be a much better ambassador for your own religion and chosen god.
If you have issues with Islam and Muslims then iSok is here with us on this forum and he is generally open to questions, so if you play nice and don't make these public attacks maybe you could learn something.

You seem to be describing aspects of Buddhism. God does not command me to tolerate and be non-jugemental towards the lie that is Islam. Actually, I am to denounce all idolatries with vigor. As for love, you do have a point. Sometimes I lack tact.

What are you considering his side?

Coming to his defense after my hard and unsympathetic post about Islam.

AreEl, maybe I was too harsh with my reply with crucifixes or "fat bhudda's".
I'm not of the Ba'hai faith, I'm a muslim following Imam Hanafi's teachings of Islam (diversity is what makes us human beings).
About messengers in other religions. This is what the Qur'an has to say about it. I'll quote a few verses:

Qur'an [35:24]- "We have sent you with the Truth to proclaim good news and to warn. Never has there been a nation but a warner came to it."
Qur'an [15:10]- "(O Muhammad), certainly We did send Messengers before you among the nations which have gone by."


I think it would be only fair if a God would exist, he would sent messengers to different nations.
It's true that in the Qur'an people like Krishna are not mentioned.
But let me explain.

I don't know whether you have read the Vedas (Hindu scripture). Their scripture says: God is One and His name is Vishnu.
They happen to believe in different incarnation of God, who visit the Earth each time to settle things right. (Bhudda, Krishna, Ram, Brahma..etc..)
So this leads to worshipping almost everything, some people get baby's with 3 arms and immediatly the baby is seen as a reincarnation, so they build a temple.
Over time, this lead to a couple of thosand of God's...

Brahma is one of their most important incarnation of God. Brahma's wife is Saraswati (The Goddess of fertility).
Now, what amazes me is this:

Abraham - Brahma  
Sara       - Saraswati

As you can see, the names are almost the same.
To add, that Saraswati is the Goddess of fertility. (We both know that Sara gave childbirth on a very late age).
Can this all be a coincidence? I don't think so......

Another factor is the Golden Rule among world religions. It's the central point of each religion.
I'll give a few examples:

Bhuddism:

- Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

Christianity:

-Do to no one what you yourself dislike.

Confucianism:

-Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.

Hinduism:

- One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self. This, in brief, is the rule of dharma. Other behavior is due to selfish desires.

Islam:

-None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.

You might ask yourself, why I believe in the 'lie' of Islam?

It's because in Islam, I see the Oneness of God and the Oneness of man.

Judaism for example differ between men. Born jews and those that converted are different. (The Qur'an blames them for this)
Christianity on the other hand is worshipping a man in my opinion, you may not think so, I understand.

A picture like this, says more than a thousand words:
(We don't worship the Ka'ba, it's only a symbol of the Oneness of man, that we are equal before God, some muslims tend to kiss it, but that is a form of idol-worship)

[DirtyLeo]

A picture like this, says more than a thousand words:

It says that nowadays muslims pilgrimage to and pray around the same meteorite (probably) as pre-islamic Arabs used to do for their High God (Allah) among other 360 idols.  

[iSok]

A picture like this, says more than a thousand words:

It says that nowadays muslims pilgrimage to and pray around the same meteorite (probably) as pre-islamic Arabs used to do for their High God (Allah) among other 360 idols.  

The "fairytale" goes like this DL.

All three Abrahamic religions agree on the following:

Abraham had two sons: Isaac and Ishmael.
Isaac is considered as the ancestor of the Jews.
Ishmael is considered as the ancestor of the Arabs.
(Judaism, Christianity and Islam agree on this)

I am not sure if the two other religions agree on the following:

Ishmael and his father built the Ka'ba (the place was marked with a meteorite).
The Jews also visited the Ka'ba, and they encirceled the Ka'ba seven times. (we Muslims still do this).
While the population among the Ka'ba was growing, some Arabs were forced to migrate to other places.

While migrating, they took stones from the Ka'ba as a remembrance of God while they were away from the Ka'Ba, they'd come back once a year. (Idol-worshipping started here)
The Arabs that left, came in touch with other pagan tribes (idol-worshippers). After some time, the Arabs started worshipping their stones (taken from the Ka'Ba) too.
These Arabs thought that these stones would help them to communicate with God, some type of intermediairs.

Eventually these stones were brought back to the Ka'Ba and were placed there.
The Arab merchants back then, were okay with this, it meant a lucrative business for them. Pagan tribes would come to the Ka'Ba to worship God by worshipping multiple God's, most of them were
wealthy merchants and because of this the Arab economy around the Ka'Ba was booming.
The Jews could not accep this, and they did not visit the Ka'Ba any longer.

During this, there was a small group of people that did not accept this.
They always believed in One God, and found the whole concept of idol-worship wrong.
Centuries after Muhammad (pbuh) was one of these people, he always believed in One God.

So when he started his Prophethood, most Arabs were against his message, because it meant the end of their wealthy life.
Pagan tribes would no longer visit, idol-worship would be no longer tolerated. So in the end the Prophet removed the 360 idols that were placed within the Ka'Ba.
And restored the Oneness of God.

'Allah' means in Arabic: "The One God"

[DirtyLeo]

A picture like this, says more than a thousand words:

It says that nowadays muslims pilgrimage to and pray around the same meteorite (probably) as pre-islamic Arabs used to do for their High God (Allah) among other 360 idols.  

The "fairytale" goes like this DL.

All three Abrahamic religions agree on the following:

Abraham had two sons: Isaac and Ishmael.
Isaac is considered as the ancestor of the Jews.
Ishmael is considered as the ancestor of the Arabs.
(Judaism, Christianity and Islam agree on this)

I am not sure if the two other religions agree on the following:

Ishmael and his father built the Ka'ba (the place was marked with a meteorite).
The Jews also visited the Ka'ba, and they encirceled the Ka'ba seven times. (we Muslims still do this).
While the population among the Ka'ba was growing, some Arabs were forced to migrate to other places.

While migrating, they took stones from the Ka'ba as a remembrance of God while they were away from the Ka'Ba, they'd come back once a year. (Idol-worshipping started here)
The Arabs that left, came in touch with other pagan tribes (idol-worshippers). After some time, the Arabs started worshipping their stones (taken from the Ka'Ba) too.
These Arabs thought that these stones would help them to communicate with God, some type of intermediairs.

Eventually these stones were brought back to the Ka'Ba and were placed there.
The Arab merchants back then, were okay with this, it meant a lucrative business for them. Pagan tribes would come to the Ka'Ba to worship God by worshipping multiple God's, most of them were
wealthy merchants and because of this the Arab economy around the Ka'Ba was booming.
The Jews could not accep this, and they did not visit the Ka'Ba any longer.

During this, there was a small group of people that did not accept this.
They always believed in One God, and found the whole concept of idol-worship wrong.
Centuries after Muhammad (pbuh) was one of these people, he always believed in One God.

So when he started his Prophethood, most Arabs were against his message, because it meant the end of their wealthy life.
Pagan tribes would no longer visit, idol-worship would be no longer tolerated. So in the end the Prophet removed the 360 idols that were placed within the Ka'Ba.
And restored the Oneness of God.

'Allah' means in Arabic: "The One God"

So, to my point, muslims pilgrimage to the same place the idol-worshipping Arabs used to pilgrimage before Islam. It was very convenient that Muhammad's new religion didn't upset the trade in the area by making this pilgrimage one of the pillars of his religion. And certainly, Muhammad himself was an idol-worshipper before Islam because his tribe took the control of Kaba before his birth. They even displaced it.

[fester30]

That doesn't change the study that suggests religion is going extinct in 9 countries.