Justified killing or murder?

[OldGit]

Many posters here display a touching faith in the justice system.  In the UK, and probably elsewhere, we constantly get killers and paedophiles released from prison and reoffending.  I won't rant on here about the immense harm bien-pensant liberal thinking has done and is doing to society.  Take my rant as read.  This is one paedophile who got what most ordinary citizens would say he deserved, and now he can't reoffend.  To hell with the criminal's "rights", we need to protect our kids.  Let him anywhere near a judge and his rights will become paramount, while the public safety can go hang.

[Asmodean]

Well, our rehab system is very good compared to many, if not most, other countries, and the law enforcement officers have never failed me (They did not find my stolen bicycle, but that's what insurance is for) in any major way.

Why would I distrust them any more than I distrust every other stranger on the street?

[Asmodean]

Would you risk further endangering your child by improvised intervention then?

If I didn't announce my presence, by initiating dialogue first, but instead took him by surprise, I would have a better chance to subdue him.

...Thus turning what you are trying to do into a premeditated assault, yes?

[En_Route]

Many posters here display a touching faith in the justice system.  In the UK, and probably elsewhere, we constantly get killers and paedophiles released from prison and reoffending.  I won't rant on here about the immense harm bien-pensant liberal thinking has done and is doing to society.  Take my rant as read.  This is one paedophile who got what most ordinary citizens would say he deserved, and now he can't reoffend.  To hell with the criminal's "rights", we need to protect our kids.  Let him anywhere near a judge and his rights will become paramount, while the public safety can go hang.

The answer may be to reform the justice system rather than condoning a lynch mob mentality.

[OldGit]

Well, our rehab system is very good compared to many, if not most, other countries, and the law enforcement officers have never failed me (They did not find my stolen bicycle, but that's what insurance is for) in any major way.

Why would I distrust them any more than I distrust every other stranger on the street?

It's not the police that are the problem, it's the courts and particularly the system which lets dangerous criminals out on the supposition that they are no longer dangerous.  These idiots are much more interested in a convicted killer's "rights"  than in the public safety.  And however many new victims fall prey to released criminals, those fools never learn.

[OldGit]

The answer may be to reform the justice system rather than condoning a lynch mob mentality.

I don't condone, say, the incidents a few years ago when angry mobs went out hunting for supposed paedophiles.  That way lies chaos.  This case is very different.

As for reforming the justice system ....  nice theory.  But in civilised Europe the liberal rot goes very deep.

[En_Route]

The answer may be to reform the justice system rather than condoning a lynch mob mentality.

I don't condone, say, the incidents a few years ago when angry mobs went out hunting for supposed paedophiles.  That way lies chaos.  This case is very different.

As for reforming the justice system ....  nice theory.  But in civilised Europe the liberal rot goes very deep.

I agree this case is not on all fours. But there is, I suggest, a thin line between saying that most ordinary citizens would agree that the offender here got what he deserved and advocating some form of DIY justice. However, I equally agree also that reforming the judicial system is probably a pious aspiration and its shortcomings are deeply frustrating to many people. It is a genuine dilemma and really is a question of whether you opt for the devil or the deep blue sea.

[OldGit]

Yes, it's a thin line and at the same time, a fuzzy one.  True, we can't have vigilante justice, but we could widen the existing self-defence and justifiable homicide laws.

The main thing is that the self-styled intellectual élite need to move away from their obsession with rights, and have their noses rubbed in what happens in the real world.  The pendulum will swing; indeed, I've watched it swinging in recent years.  But movement is glacially slow and I won't see a balance restored in my lifetime.

[Asmodean]

In real world, I suspect that very intellectual élite would be smart enough to know when to call for professional aid and keep a safe distance though.

For my part, if I was being mugged at gunpoint, the last thing I would want would be some wannabe John McClane tackling the mugger, potentially making his trigger finger twitch. The same applies to most, if not nearly all, other examples of amateur rescue from crime as well.

[Ali]

If I were being raped, I would want someone to put a stop to it, right then, using whatever force they deemed necessary.

[Asmodean]

I would welcome interference by a passer by if someone was actively trying to kill or potentially fatally injure me and my capacity to hold my own was diminished (Either due to my own issues or the opponent being better armed and trained/having weight superiority/whatever)

[Ecurb Noselrub]

The variety of responses on this thread have been interesting.  They demonstrate regional/national differences in attitudes toward the justice system.  In Texas, I'd say that over 95% of the people who knew about this were fine with the grand jury deciding not to charge this man.  I only heard one person from the Texas Civil Rights Project who thought he might possibly should have been charged. But it sounds like there would have been a much different outcome in Norway.

[Guardian85]

I take issue with some people in this thread alluding to vigilanteism. The man in this case was not a vigilante, and painting him as such is doing him a disservice. It is not vigilanteism to defend yourself or others from an immediate threat. Chasing the perpetrator down and hurting him or other criminals after the fact would be.

[En_Route]

I take issue with some people in this thread alluding to vigilanteism. The man in this case was not a vigilante, and painting him as such is doing him a disservice. It is not vigilanteism to defend yourself or others from an immediate threat. Chasing the perpetrator down and hurting him or other criminals after the fact would be.

I don't think anyone is calling him a vigilante though the discussion has broadened out to include that topic, which is different.

[Asmodean]

Indeed, the discussion has evolved and has for some time now been about more than this one guy.