What's on your mind today?

[Dave]

Hearing and vision are dealt with by completely different parts of the brain:

Yup, know that    but are there different areas for integrating sight and hearing into cognition and memory?

I am typing this as I listen to the news, humans can multi-task, write coherent (?) text whilst fully understanding whst is heard. Both take cognition if I have the correct term. I am hopeful Silver will affirm or correct this. But, I will probably remember very few details of either, the news is transitory anyway, may well be different  in the next edition so only the sketchiest of memory is needed. I will also have to re-read this in order to rezpond to any responses - which is part of the reason we quote each other (also polite to new readers, saves them searching high and low for context!)

[No one]

The human brain is like a car with a stick, not everyone knows how to use it.

[Claireliontamer]

Hearing and vision are dealt with by completely different parts of the brain:

Yup, know that    but are there different areas for integrating sight and hearing into cognition and memory?

I am typing this as I listen to the news, humans can multi-task, write coherent (?) text whilst fully understanding whst is heard. Both take cognition if I have the correct term. I am hopeful Silver will affirm or correct this. But, I will probably remember very few details of either, the news is transitory anyway, may well be different  in the next edition so only the sketchiest of memory is needed. I will also have to re-read this in order to rezpond to any responses - which is part of the reason we quote each other (also polite to new readers, saves them searching high and low for context!)

I think I'm right in saying the evidence shows we actually multi task worse than we think we do.  Hang on, I remember seeing something recently about it...

https://youtu.be/GMEHc-TMVpk if that works from my phone.

[No one]

I've read that humans can not actually multitask. Though they can preform several tasks at once, the brain can only truly concentrate on one at a time.

For instance, say you are walking down the street, talking on the phone. You hail a taxi. You're still talking on the phone as you reach for the door handle, while you are reaching, that is what the brain is actually paying attention to. So, even though you're in the middle of a conversation while you are reaching, in that brief moment that you are reaching, you are not really listening to what is being said.

[Dave]

I've read that humans can not actually multitask. Though they can preform several tasks at once, the brain can only truly concentrate on one at a time.

For instance, say you are walking down the street, talking on the phone. You hail a taxi. You're still talking on the phone as you reach for the door handle, while you are reaching, that is what the brain is actually paying attention to. So, even though you're in the middle of a conversation while you are reaching, in that brief moment that you are reaching, you are not really listening to what is being said.

Hmm, chances are you don't get 100% performance in every simultaneous task but "multiplexing" seems to work sufficiently as a passable semblance of "multitasking"  for some, in practical terms.

[xSilverPhinx]

I think he's oversimplifying things a bit, and I'm not sure what I think of it as I don't know enough on the neuroscience of creativity to have an informed opinion.

I personally don't mind uncertainty because I've accepted the fact that there's so much that we won't know...let alone the things we don't even know we don't know. I don't see that as the source of my creative moments however, but what do I know.

I read an interesting little book recently about creativity (https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Think-Like-Artist-Lead-More-Creative-Productive/0241970806).  It doesn't really go into details about the neuroscience but looks at the common traits highly creative people have including asking lots of questions and not assuming like mentioned in the video.  There's also other factors like studying lots of other similar creative people, artists for example rarely just produce a moment of inspiration but instead their pieces of work are more likely to be the result of heavy study of other artists and building up their design over many trials.

Interesting.

[xSilverPhinx]

Hearing and vision are dealt with by completely different parts of the brain:

Yup, know that    but are there different areas for integrating sight and hearing into cognition and memory?

I am typing this as I listen to the news, humans can multi-task, write coherent (?) text whilst fully understanding whst is heard. Both take cognition if I have the correct term. I am hopeful Silver will affirm or correct this. But, I will probably remember very few details of either, the news is transitory anyway, may well be different  in the next edition so only the sketchiest of memory is needed. I will also have to re-read this in order to rezpond to any responses - which is part of the reason we quote each other (also polite to new readers, saves them searching high and low for context!)

These are the so called "primary" sensory cortices. Vision is in the occipital lobe and hearing is in the temporal lobe. 



The areas that integrate sensory information (and other processes) is called the association cortex, which is basically all poly and multimodal areas.   

[xSilverPhinx]

I think people certainly like to believe that they can multitask effectively, but when put to the test... They could be some that are better than others, that is wholly possible, just as there are people with better working memories than others, which is the type of memory (prefrontal cortex) required for remembering information for a short period of time before it is consolidated into short-term memory or forgotten. Like what the first word of this reply is. Can you remember without going back and seeing what it is?

Probably not, but don't worry too much about that, it's perfectly normal. You remembered it long enough to read the whole sentence and extract the gist of it. But why are some things forgotten while others are remembered? There are two important factores that go into consolidating a memory, or learning something so to speak: attention and emotion.

The problem with multitasking is that is there is more that one task competing for a person's attention, which is not an infinite resource. Attention is limited. Working memory is limited, and the more you have on your mind the worse you do in consolidating new memories, or learning.

Tl;Dr: I think the average person is not good at multitasking.

[Arturo]

I got my mind on my money and my money on my mind.

[Dave]

Tl;Dr: I think the average person is not good at multitasking.

OK, maybe things like training (in the armed forces and emergency services for e.g.s) can improve (for those able in the first place) multitasking or activity multiplexing. Remembering the whole of an instruction whilst doing two other things is a bit academic, learning to select and retain the essentials from an instruction may be more achievable. In most practical circumstances in the two examples

I used long term retention of thise ibstructions is not rewuired. If time allows a briefing, requiring concentrated sttention, and note tsking msybe, serves to cover the long term stuff. "3rd squad, go right 100 metres and establish an FOP in the most defensible building" only has to be remembered for as long as is needed to accomplished the task. Actually that contains surperfluous verbiage, "Three squad, set FOP 100 right," would be enough - the squad should know what kind of building is best.

[Claireliontamer]

Tl;Dr: I think the average person is not good at multitasking.

OK, maybe things like training (in the armed forces and emergency services for e.g.s) can improve (for those able in the first place) multitasking or activity multiplexing. Remembering the whole of an instruction whilst doing two other things is a bit academic, learning to select and retain the essentials from an instruction may be more acievable.

What training does is make you practise so much that you don't have to think about what you're doing. A lot of of becomes automatic and almost subconscious.  It is like driving, to begin with we have to think about every action but with more and more driving hours parts of it become automatic and we can drive whilst also listening to music or talking to others in the car.

[Dave]

Tl;Dr: I think the average person is not good at multitasking.

OK, maybe things like training (in the armed forces and emergency services for e.g.s) can improve (for those able in the first place) multitasking or activity multiplexing. Remembering the whole of an instruction whilst doing two other things is a bit academic, learning to select and retain the essentials from an instruction may be more acievable.

What training does is make you practise so much that you don't have to think about what you're doing. A lot of of becomes automatic and almost subconscious.  It is like driving, to begin with we have to think about every action but with more and more driving hours parts of it become automatic and we can drive whilst also listening to music or talking to others in the car.

Now, what is the difference between training, practice and learning repeated experience? Perhaps both of the latter acheive the first? "Trsining", fir me, has the elements of formality, "Do this then fo thst". Yes, you are "trained" to drive the car, told the functions of the controls and instruments, guven a verbal set of ground rules etc. After that sharing your attention between the road situation, use of the controls, observation of the essential instruments/indicators and understanding the instructor's instructions  is syrely either inherent or not. If it is inherent then it can be probably be improved by practice rather than instruction. Though things like, "Mirror, shoulder, indicator, manouver" are learned by rote.

Some things are done at the "auto-pilot/muscle memory" level (though this has dangers) most complex experiences surely have unique characteristics that need evaluation and decision, whilst still doing three other things at the same tine. For some panic is the reaction to unexpected, for others training and practice, mental or physical,  reduce that tendency.

So, inherent or "trained" , the ability to do three or more things, to an acceptable level of competence, at once is practical and pragmatic I think. Whildt I have redpect for mist psychology unless their experiments and findings reflect the pragmatism of real life . . . Whether we "multi-task" or "multiplex"  is irrelevant to life-as-we-live-it, of academic interest only, sonething about "dancing angels" and "pinheads" comes to mind!

Tl:dr, as Silver said! Training and repetitive learning can only improve and enhance an inherent ability.

[xSilverPhinx]

Now, what is the difference between training, practice and learning repeated experience? Perhaps both of the latter acheive the first? "Trsining", fir me, has the elements of formality, "Do this then fo thst". Yes, you are "trained" to drive the car, told the functions of the controls and instruments, guven a verbal set of ground rules etc. After that sharing your attention between the road situation, use of the controls, observation of the essential instruments/indicators and understanding the instructor's instructions  is syrely either inherent or not. If it is inherent then it can be probably be improved by practice rather than instruction. Though things like, "Mirror, shoulder, indicator, manouver" are learned by rote.

It helps to keep in mind the types of long-term memory when thinking about that kind of stuff:



Long-term memory can basically be divided into 'declarative', or conscious,such as the memory for facts and events and 'nondeclarative' or subconscious as Claire said, which would include procedural memory, such as the "autopilot'' kind of memory you activate when you drive a car, ride a bike, etc. These are dependant on different structures.

Rote fact learning is declarative memory, and constant reactivation of such a memory can make it labile to changes (increasing or decreasing the strength of neural connections, for instance). An existing memory might be given a different emotional valence, making it stronger or weaker. Memories can and do also incorporate new information, a process called 'updating'. 

Some things are done at the "auto-pilot/muscle memory" level (though this has dangers) most complex experiences surely have unique characteristics that need evaluation and decision, whilst still doing three other things at the same tine. For some panic is the reaction to unexpected, for others training and practice, mental or physical,  reduce that tendency.

While some types of memory are dependant on certain structures, this doesn't mean that they work in isolation. The prefrontal cortex, for instance, which is responsible for planning and decision-making regulates other parts of the brain. It can even be recruited to inhibit the limbic system to a degree, allowing a person to think more rationally (using the neocortex) in times of emotional stress. As for some people... it seems the primitive amygdala is all they think with.

(A LOT of the brain's energy goes into inhibiting responses.)

So, inherent or "trained" , the ability to do three or more things, to an acceptable level of competence, at once is practical and pragmatic I think. Whildt I have redpect for mist psychology unless their experiments and findings reflect the pragmatism of real life . . . Whether we "multi-task" or "multiplex"  is irrelevant to life-as-we-live-it, of academic interest only, sonething about "dancing angels" and "pinheads" comes to mind!

I don't think it's that irrelevant, with so many things in life competing for attention: phones, school classes, the one-hundred million tabs while browsing the internet...it's important to know whether you are as good as you think you are at focusing on all of them or whether you should just take a step back, think about it and give your undivided attention to one thing at a time.

Tl:dr, as Silver said! Training and repetitive learning can only improve and enhance an inherent ability.

If that ability is subconscious I believe it can.

[Dave]

Perhaps I tend to consider what happens in the "experienced world" rather than look at the mechnisms behind it - until that "experienced world" goes awry, then one has to investigate why. I always tend towards being the "technician" even in my analytical mode - if it works  is it does not  .


Quote me:
Tl:dr, as Silver said! Training and repetitive learning can only improve and enhance an inherent ability.

Quote Silver:
If that ability is subconscious I believe it can.

Just realised my comment is ambiguous, and you replied in the mode I did not mean - which was, "Training ... can only ... an ability where the person inherently has potential. Some never learn to handle driving IMHO, they are on the road because they are taught how to pass the test, never to develop their ability beyond that point!

[Davin]

For multi-tasking, it depends on the complexity of the task. Programming while carrying on a conversation is not really possible, I can do one or the other or do one of them shitty. Conversations and programming are both very complicated tasks for me.

I can carry on a conversation while doing something simple like the dishes because it is fairly basic with specific moments where I can focus attention. Like when I need to see if the dish is clean, I check then go right back to the conversation and it takes so little time that I don't normally miss anything in the conversation.

So there are some things that can happen with little attention usage like things attributed to "muscle learning" where actions can be triggered that take very little attention to complete. But for most things, it's just switching between several things very quickly, which is why it's a bit stressful and affects my ability to store it in my long term memory.

Sometimes I use the bad memory storage issue on purpose. When reading books and watching shows and movies, I tend to remember them very well, so I don't have to watch or read them again for about a decade, but if I like a thing, then I'll want to watch it more often so I'll try to not remember them so well by multi-tasking while reading or watching. I'll still notice and remember about as much as most people I talk to do.