Theist Commentary: How to tell your family you are an atheist.

[LegendarySandwich]

Would you consider killing millions of people (babies, kids, the unborn as well as men and women), good or bad?

That would be 'bad' by human hands.

But since God did it, it's all fine and dandy.

So you deny that the society you live in, used the Bible as it's foundation?

Yes. Despite popular stupidity, the USA was NOT founded on Christian principles, morals, or ethics, nor on the Bible (good God, definitely not the Bible). And even if it was, are you saying that are all our morals HAVE to reflect our society? That we can't think for ourselves?

[iSok]

But since God did it, it's all fine and dandy.

Davin meant the millions of people dying in wars, earth quakes, floods, genocides..etc?
And why God does that? Or did he mean something else?

Yes. Despite popular stupidity, the USA was NOT founded on Christian principles, morals, or ethics, nor on the Bible (good God, definitely not the Bible). And even if it was, are you saying that are all our morals HAVE to reflect our society? That we can't think for ourselves?

I hope I am not stupid, you and I are both young and have a lot to learn.

Could you tell me on what basics the U.S.A. was founded?
What are the principles, and how did people came to those principles?

[Lythande]

Simple, like anything else, just say it.  Take any discussions until they become simple insults/conversion attempts.  At that point, walk away and let -them- deal with their objections on their own -- after all, it's their problem.

[Whitney]

So you deny that the society you live in, used the Bible as it's foundation?

Yes...but that's a non-issue as we are talking about current times and not history.

Hardly anyone in our society is currently taught to utilize the bible as their sole source of understanding moral questions....the ones who do use it as their sole source (without also using their brains) end up being bigoted fundamentalists because the bible contains archaic moral ideas from a dead society that was not yet morally mature.

Most people in US society are tolerant (if not accepting) of homosexuals, women are viewed as equal to men (rather than subservient as is sugested by the bible) and a growing number are pro choice (even if they are personally against abortion)...are you still wanting to argue that the general morality of the US is bible based?

Even IF the average person's morality were based on the bible it wouldn't make sense to tell someone who is not a bible believer that their morality is based on the bible (as that would be impossible as biblical morality makes disbelief in God a bad thing).

[Davin]

Would you consider killing millions of people (babies, kids, the unborn as well as men and women), good or bad?

That would be 'bad' by human hands.

So you don't believe in objective morality?

[Lythande]

Could you tell me on what basics the U.S.A. was founded?
What are the principles, and how did people came to those principles?

The US of A was founded on _Freedom_, not religion.  Freedom of religion was only one of those freedoms, most of which are now being ignored in favor of religious fervor.  It's ridiculous, some of the arguments, e.g. "If the founding fathers really meant 'total separation of church and state', then why is "In God We Trust' on our money and 'under God' in our pledge of allegiance?"  Uhm, which of the founding fathers were around in the 1950s?  That one _really_ irks me, because the men who wrote those founding documents were some of the most brilliant minds of their age.  It's like saying they weren't articulate enough to say what they meant.  The language of the docs was intentionally simple, because they wanted _all_ men to be able to understand them, and were hoping to make them straight-forward enough that they could not be messed with later on.  Unfortunately TPTB will find a way to twist things to their benefit no matter what is done to try to prevent it.

(See aslo this, if you wish.)

[Whitney]

Could you tell me on what basics the U.S.A. was founded?
What are the principles, and how did people came to those principles?

The colonies were started because people wanted freedom of religion and/or a new start in a promising new world
The US split from Britian because people got pissed off that they were being taxed without representation.
Declaration of Independence:  http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
Constitution: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... ution.html
You will not find Bible or the 10 commandments in there anywhere.

This is not a history class. If you want to know any more than that, go research it.  I frankly find it telling that you were making claims about the foundations of the US without having known anything about it...perhaps you should not make claims about things you know nothing about.

[iSok]

So you deny that the society you live in, used the Bible as it's foundation?

Yes...but that's a non-issue as we are talking about current times and not history.

Hardly anyone in our society is currently taught to utilize the bible as their sole source of understanding moral questions....the ones who do use it as their sole source (without also using their brains) end up being bigoted fundamentalists because the bible contains archaic moral ideas from a dead society that was not yet morally mature.

Most people in US society are tolerant (if not accepting) of homosexuals, women are viewed as equal to men (rather than subservient as is sugested by the bible) and a growing number are pro choice (even if they are personally against abortion)...are you still wanting to argue that the general morality of the US is bible based?

Even IF the average person's morality were based on the bible it wouldn't make sense to tell someone who is not a bible believer that their morality is based on the bible (as that would be impossible as biblical morality makes disbelief in God a bad thing).

I asked a friend of mine a few minutes ago, a student of philosophy.
It's a bit confusing, whenever I hear Obama or Bush, it's always 'God bless America!'.
Or the abortion and gay rights in the US are a big issue.

But my friend just told me that the US was founded on a secular system...which shocked me.
The U.S.A. is now regarded as the capital of Christianity, Obama himself can apply for pope...

But what I meant, is that we are certainly influenced by certain values in the Bible, every western society is.
I'll end the discussion here.

[iSok]

Would you consider killing millions of people (babies, kids, the unborn as well as men and women), good or bad?

That would be 'bad' by human hands.

So you don't believe in objective morality?

I don't

[LegendarySandwich]

But since God did it, it's all fine and dandy.

Davin meant the millions of people dying in wars, earth quakes, floods, genocides..etc?
And why God does that? Or did he mean something else?

He meant that the God of the Bible is evil, cruel, and stupid. It's not a good book to found your moral principles on.

Yes. Despite popular stupidity, the USA was NOT founded on Christian principles, morals, or ethics, nor on the Bible (good God, definitely not the Bible). And even if it was, are you saying that are all our morals HAVE to reflect our society? That we can't think for ourselves?

I hope I am not stupid, you and I are both young and have a lot to learn.

Could you tell me on what basics the U.S.A. was founded?

Read the Constitution.

What are the principles, and how did people came to those principles?

Probably from common sense and rational thinking.

I asked a friend of mine a few minutes ago, a student of philosophy.
It's a bit confusing, whenever I hear Obama or Bush, it's always 'God bless America!'.
Or the abortion and gay rights in the US are a big issue.

But my friend just told me that the US was founded on a secular system...which shocked me.
The U.S.A. is now regarded as the capital of Christianity, Obama himself can apply for pope...

But what I meant, is that we are certainly influenced by certain values in the Bible, every western society is.
I'll end the discussion here.

The USA is secular, but idiots are trying to push religion into it.

[Davin]

So you don't believe in objective morality?

I don't

Ok, just wondering.

Most Christians do not base their morality on the bible, they spend a great deal of time distancing themselves from all but the ten commandments(even though most have been shown to not even know them) in the old testimate. And even quote a bit of the new testimate. Saying that anyone's ultimate guide to good and bad is the bible is very inaccurate.

[LegendarySandwich]

Most Christians do not base their morality on the bible, they spend a great deal of time distancing themselves from all but the ten commandments(even though most have been shown to not even know them) in the old testimate. And even quote a bit of the new testimate. Saying that anyone's ultimate guide to good and bad is the bible is very inaccurate.

If Christians follow the Ten Commandments, why don't they "Keep the Sabbath Holy"?

[Davin]

Most Christians do not base their morality on the bible, they spend a great deal of time distancing themselves from all but the ten commandments(even though most have been shown to not even know them) in the old testimate. And even quote a bit of the new testimate. Saying that anyone's ultimate guide to good and bad is the bible is very inaccurate.

If Christians follow the Ten Commandments, why don't they "Keep the Sabbath Holy"?

I've yet to see anyone who does make an attempt follow all of them any more, which is why also added that most don't even know what they are. What I meant was that most of the Christians I talk to (who try to bring up god to me), are quick to distance themselves from all the bad bits by saying the old testimate is not followed but they usually offer an exception to the ten commandments, and that we should really follow the new testimate... until you bring up things like in Judges 13 where Jephthah sacrifices his daughter because god helped him kill a bunch of people.

[AnimatedDirt]

If Christians follow the Ten Commandments, why don't they "Keep the Sabbath Holy"?

Excellent question.  One you might want to pose, not to "Christians", but rather to the proponents of the 9 Commandments.
FYI, there are Christians that endeavor to "keep" the 4th, while understanding that we cannot "keep" any of God's law perfectly.  If we could, that fairy tale Jesus needn't have come and died.

[LegendarySandwich]

If Christians follow the Ten Commandments, why don't they "Keep the Sabbath Holy"?

Excellent question.  One you might want to pose, not to "Christians", but rather to the proponents of the 9 Commandments.
FYI, there are Christians that endeavor to "keep" the 4th, while understanding that we cannot "keep" any of God's law perfectly.  If we could, that fairy tale Jesus needn't have come and died.

So, wait, it's okay to chronically break one of the Ten Commandments because of Jesus?