Having a personal relationship with God

[gsaint]

Since I have yet to see any evidence that anyone can provide that debunks my relationship with God. I will have to say that the Atheist's view point, on a relationship with God, is based on a blind belief.  I will periodically pop back in to see if anyone has presented proof that what I experience is incorrect.

[LegendarySandwich]

Since I have yet to see any evidence that anyone can provide that debunks my relationship with God. I will have to say that the Atheist's view point, on a relationship with God, is based on a blind belief.  I will periodically pop back in to see if anyone has presented proof that what I experience is incorrect.

I just talked to Elvis, and he told me that what you experience is incorrect. That's my proof.

[Thumpalumpacus]

What you believe is none of my business, really, is it?  So long as you don't push it on me, at least.

[Stevil]

myself, along with many others working in the top of their fields, whether philosophy, cosmology, biology, history, you name it, have logically arrived at the God of the Bible. It's not that difficult.

And yet you come to a forum full of people who live by logic and reasoning and you are unable to show them in a convincing logical fashion that the god of the bible is true.

[Whitney]

I will believe that Elvis Presley has been talking to me in my head for 20 years, and will continue to believe so, until you can prove that he hasn't and won't.

I'm waiting.

so what your saying is you have no proof?

What he is saying is that there is no reason for anyone to take your claim of hearing god in your head as serious proof of god and therefore there is no reason to attempt to disprove it.

[Whitney]

LS there's nothing wrong with "existential nihilism." It's a condition that reflects your faith. Existentially speaking you prefer not existing and your hope is for it to materialize that way. The problem is that may not be exactly how things are. Your faith is guiding you to that condition and it may very well be delusional. Proof of non-existence can't be proven since no one who has died has come back to tell us that, that is how it is on the other side. Existentially, It's a question that will never be answered by anyone. It's a circular argument without any proofs. True science requires proofs. The truth of the matter is that one will always be gambling when it comes to the question of does god exist.

What drives me and others I suppose to belief in god rather than disbelieving is love. Proof doesn't exist either fore or against. What does exist is want and if we have love in us. We follow Christ who is love.

Let's see...you just told someone that they don't like living and that they have no love in them...can you give me a reason for why I shouldn't issue strike 3?

eh hem...are you going to address this?  If you don't address it then next time I won't even give you a chance to explain yourself.

[Achronos]

Not true. Lots of Christians are, even if you are not one of them.

So that's in then?  As long as one Christian somewhere does it, then the entire foundations of Christianity rest upon that?

Just like I'm justified in believing that Elvis talks to me. Glad we could sort that out.

Principle. Of. Credulity.  Learn it.  It's plainly clear that you do not know it.

[LegendarySandwich]

Principle of Testimony - with the absence of any reason to disbelieve them, one should accept that eye-witnesses or believers are telling the truth when they testify about religious experiences.

"I believe that the Judeo-Christian God, an omniscicent, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent being who exists outside of space and time, has a personality, created the universe, has always existed, did all of the things credited to him in the Bible, a book full of internal and external contradictions, absurdities, and clear inspirations from other religions/cultures/stories that he wrote etc., is communicating to me through my head, and we have a personal relationship."

"I believe that Elvis Presley, a dead celebrity whose existence is verifiable, is communicating to me through my head."

By the way, you said earlier that you didn't mean God talking to you through your head. What did you mean, then? Isn't that what prayer is all about?

[LegendarySandwich]

Not true. Lots of Christians are, even if you are not one of them.

So that's in then?  As long as one Christian somewhere does it, then the entire foundations of Christianity rest upon that?

When did I say, or even imply, that?

[Achronos]

LS there's nothing wrong with "existential nihilism." It's a condition that reflects your faith. Existentially speaking you prefer not existing and your hope is for it to materialize that way. The problem is that may not be exactly how things are. Your faith is guiding you to that condition and it may very well be delusional. Proof of non-existence can't be proven since no one who has died has come back to tell us that, that is how it is on the other side. Existentially, It's a question that will never be answered by anyone. It's a circular argument without any proofs. True science requires proofs. The truth of the matter is that one will always be gambling when it comes to the question of does god exist.

What drives me and others I suppose to belief in god rather than disbelieving is love. Proof doesn't exist either fore or against. What does exist is want and if we have love in us. We follow Christ who is love.

Let's see...you just told someone that they don't like living and that they have no love in them...can you give me a reason for why I shouldn't issue strike 3?

eh hem...are you going to address this?  If you don't address it then next time I won't even give you a chance to explain yourself.

You have an issue with my last statement, which is understanable, however I should clarify that I am speaking about Christians. God's revelation is given to something called a loving heart. We know from the Scriptures that God is love; Christianity is the Religion of Love. (You may look at the failures, see people who call themselves Christians and are not, and say there is no love there; but Christianity is indeed the religion of love when it is successful and practiced in the right way.) Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself says that it is above all by their love that His true disciples are to be distinguished.

That is what I mean when Christians follow Christ, because He is love. I am stating what drives me to believe in Christ. If you feel that He isn't love, or you can find love some other way, that's fine. But it's this materialistic, existential nihilism, which does lead to hate (as we've seen in history), serving only yourself and ultimately non-existence. This exactly why I called LS out on being just a brain in a vat. All you are basically, are the atoms that make up your body and that's it. No hope for something else, none it's this life and that's it. Those memories, loved ones, all of it vanish at your death. Now how exactly can you tell me that's love? You really think the majority of people are going to buy that? This is the fallacy of materialism. And it is a tragedy.

[LegendarySandwich]

You have an issue with my last statement, which is understanable, however I should clarify that I am speaking about Christians. God's revelation is given to something called a loving heart. We know from the Scriptures that God is love; Christianity is the Religion of Love. (You may look at the failures, see people who call themselves Christians and are not, and say there is no love there; but Christianity is indeed the religion of love when it is successful and practiced in the right way.) Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself says that it is above all by their love that His true disciples are to be distinguished.

If I had to look at all the world's religions and pick one to give the title of "Religion of Love" to, I'd probably pick one of those Eastern religions, like Buddhism or Confucianism or something.

That is what I mean when Christians follow Christ, because He is love.

The Christ depicted in the Bible isn't, which, despite your claims to the contrary, is the only basis for your religion.

I am stating what drives me to believe in Christ.

Isn't that an appeal to consequences fallacy?

If you feel that He isn't love, or you can find love some other way, that's fine.

I won't get tortured in Hell?

But it's this materialistic, existential nihilism, which does lead to hate (as we've seen in history), serving only yourself and ultimately non-existence.

Another seemingly appeal to consequences fallacy. Also, examples?

This exactly why I called LS out on being just a brain in a vat.

I prefer to call myself a bag of meat, but whatever term you think fits.

All you are basically, are the atoms that make up your body and that's it.

Yep. That's all that anything is.

No hope for something else, none it's this life and that's it.

Yep. Probably.

Those memories, loved ones, all of it vanish at your death.

Unless technology has advanced far enough to preserved my brain or clone me or make me a transhuman, yep.

Now how exactly can you tell me that's love?

...Did I ever say it was love?

You really think the majority of people are going to buy that?

No.

This is the fallacy of materialism.

Fallacy? Which one, exactly?

And it is a tragedy.

Perhaps, if you wish to see it as such.

[Achronos]

LS I am only going to say this one last time, Chrsitianity and I mean historic Christianity is no way based on the Bible (It wasn't even canonized until a couple hundred years after His Resurrection). It only serves as a witness of what we do and I will say that it is a book created by man using human terms to describe the divine experience. And if you do not have the interpretation from the authors who wrote these books, then you will never understand it. I wish it was as easy as opening up the 4 Gospels and learning all about Christ, but that is just not the case.

I personally don't believe you will be tortued in "Hell" (if that is even a literal place, which I actually do not hold to). I am willing to argue that God will serve a "harsher" judgment on the Christians but we are all judged individually. I know the American  side likes to preach "fire and brimstone" and condemn those that don't  believe. If that was the case, then Christ would have condemned everyone when he was on this Earth; no he came to give the free gift of eternal life to everyone, not just a select group.

I prefer to call myself a bag of meat,

Well I think that settles this debate and any future one then.

[LegendarySandwich]

LS I am only going to say this one last time, Chrsitianity and I mean historic Christianity is no way based on the Bible (It wasn't even canonized until a couple hundred years after His Resurrection). It only serves as a witness of what we do and I will say that it is a book created by man using human terms to describe the divine experience. And if you do not have the interpretation from the authors who wrote these books, then you will never understand it. I wish it was as easy as opening up the 4 Gospels and learning all about Christ, but that is just not the case.

I'm talking about modern day Christianity.

I personally don't believe you will be tortued in "Hell" (if that is even a literal place, which I actually do not hold to). I am willing to argue that God will serve a "harsher" judgment on the Christians but we are all judged individually. I know the American  side likes to preach "fire and brimstone" and condemn those that don't  believe. If that was the case, then Christ would have condemned everyone when he was on this Earth; no he came to give the free gift of eternal life to everyone, not just a select group.

Fair enough, I guess.

I prefer to call myself a bag of meat,

Well I think that settles this debate and any future one then.

...What. Why?

[Whitney]

Achronos,  love doesn't require eternal reward, its a reward in itself.  

I'm well aware of the typical Christian view of love...yours doesn't really seem to fit it.

[Achronos]

I'm talking about modern day Christianity.

What you are speaking of, or should I say throwing all the Christians in a Protestant Evangelical group.

You also did say:

The Christ depicted in the Bible isn't, which, despite your claims to the contrary, is the only basis for your religion.

So what about the Christ that was depicted before the Bible? I guess that really doesn't matter, because in actuality the original Church that he established was about the life he gave to people. If you villianize Christ by the Bible, and if that was an accurate assesment, then would Christianity be as explosive as it was in the first 3 centuries leading up the legalization of Christianity by Constantine? If Christ was so bad, why would anyone follow him? To take that further, why would anyone die for that? 11 of the 12 apostles were martyed on a lie? What they came together and decided "Oh so we are going to make this great myth up about the Son of God, Him doing these miracles, and He rose from the dead...but here's the catch we could die by spreading this story!" Yeah that sounds real plausible.

IFair enough, I guess.

And that is either you believe or not. You really think it would be fair that only the Christians would be saved and even some of the most holiest, good, honest atheists I have encountered (who are more pious than alot of Christians I've encountered) are going to be tortued for eternity?

Now that is illogical.

[...What. Why?

If all you are is a bag of meat, well sorry to say but there really is no point in conversing with you then.

Achronos, love doesn't require eternal reward, its a reward in itself.

I agree.

I'm well aware of the typical Christian view of love...yours doesn't really seem to fit it.

What do you mean, that we only love for that eternal reward? I'll be honest, if I loved people as much as I could and I don't get eternal life, so be it.