Having a personal relationship with God

[lundberg500]

Let's discuss the issue of people who claim to truly have a personal relationship with God. They see this relationship as "proof" to them that God does in fact exist. As an atheist, I truly cannot understand how someone can let themselves ever believe that they are in a personal relationship with something or someone that cannot be seen or heard. This completely baffles me. I personally would worry about my own sanity if I was ever in a relationship like that. Is this some sort of psychological comfort to them that they feel they need and can't live without? I really don't understand.

Gsaint here has this sort and relationship and she would like to discuss this with everyone. She has given me permission to discuss this in a new thread:

Re: Gsaint from the Black Atheist Thread
Sent: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:03 pm
From: gsaint
To: lundberg500  

thank you for asking you may and I am willing to discuss this with everyone

Here is one of her quotes to me on her personal relationship with God.

I live with God daily. You have shown me nothing that says that what I am experiencing is a delusion. You haven't been able to do so because you can't prove your point. I will believe this until you give me good solid proof to disprove a 20 year relationship with God.

Until God can be proven NOT to exist, Christians will maintain that personal relationship with God. They see the fact that God cannot be proven to exist as PROOF that he DOES exist. How could you possibly debate a Christian who truly maintains that they have this personal one on one relationship with God?

[Achronos]

From the locked thread:

This is the argument that all believers resort to when they know they've lost. "I know he exists; I have a personal relationship with him; you can't disprove him".

1. Subjective evidence isn't evidence
2. It's been proven how easy the human brain can make up things
3. Actually, your specific God can be disproven using logic

This is the argument that all non-believers resort to when they know they've lost.  "You're an idiot.  It doesn't make sense.  You believe in an illusion."

1.  When it works, it works.
2.  Unicorns are not unlimited and unfathomable beings.
3.  Actually, your specific belief can be proven to be narrow-minded and nihilistic.

[Asmodean]

1.  When it works, it works.

...And when it doesn't, it [strike:9cyuymbl]doesn't[/strike:9cyuymbl] still magically seems to for fundie types.

2.  Unicorns are not unlimited and unfathomable beings.

Neither are gods.

3.  Actually, your specific belief can be proven to be narrow-minded and nihilistic.

Just for the heck of it, would you please present the proof?

EDIT: Oh, and in your signature, could you please explain what is so tragic about photophobia, be it physical or metaphorical..? Or were you just trying to go for some of that "ancient wisdom" by quoting Plato..?

[LegendarySandwich]

From the locked thread:

This is the argument that all believers resort to when they know they've lost. "I know he exists; I have a personal relationship with him; you can't disprove him".

1. Subjective evidence isn't evidence
2. It's been proven how easy the human brain can make up things
3. Actually, your specific God can be disproven using logic

This is the argument that all non-believers resort to when they know they've lost.  "You're an idiot.  It doesn't make sense.  You believe in an illusion."

1.  When it works, it works.
2.  Unicorns are not unlimited and unfathomable beings.
3.  Actually, your specific belief can be proven to be narrow-minded and nihilistic.

I see what you did there.

1. When does it work?
2. But the Flying Spaghetti Monster is.
3. Me, narrow-minded? You probably don't even acknowledge the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster! And yes, depending on your definition of nihilism, it is nihilistic.

[Achronos]

Just for the heck of it, would you please present the proof?

Proof of nihilism?  The idea that you are nothing but an existing consciousness that will cease to exist?  Isn't that what you believe?  What should I prove to you?

Oh, and in your signature, could you please explain what is so tragic about photophobia, be it physical or metaphorical..? Or were you just trying to go for some of that "ancient wisdom" by quoting Plato..?

Photophobia?  My sig says what is says.  The tragedy of existence without God is complete vanity.

I'll quote Psalm 127: " Unless the LORD builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the LORD watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. 2 It is in vain that you rise up early and go late to rest, eating the bread of anxious toil; for he gives to his beloved sleep"

[Davin]

This is the argument that all non-believers resort to when they know they've lost.  "You're an idiot.  It doesn't make sense.  You believe in an illusion."

1.  When it works, it works.
2.  Unicorns are not unlimited and unfathomable beings.
3.  Actually, your specific belief can be proven to be narrow-minded and nihilistic.

1.) When there is no god, there is no god.
2.) Subatomic robots aren't limited and no has fathomed them.
3.) Even if that specific belief can be proven to be narrow-minded and nihilistic, can it be proven to be logically contradictory?

[LegendarySandwich]

I want to know what's wrong with existential nihilism.

[OldGit]

I want to know what's wrong with existential nihilism.

That would be just too bleak, so it can't possibly be true.

And if we're doing biblical quotes, Achronos, how about:

Romans 8:24 For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Or as Bertrand Russell put it: "We may define faith, as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We speak only of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence."

[Davin]

I want to know what's wrong with existential nihilism.

Because it's existential nihilism.

Which means: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[LegendarySandwich]

I want to know what's wrong with existential nihilism.

Because it's existential nihilism.

Which means: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[Davin]

I want to know what's wrong with existential nihilism.

Because it's existential nihilism.

Which means: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

No Ghostbusters references?

[LegendarySandwich]

I've never seen Ghostbusters.  

[lundberg500]

I've never seen Ghostbusters

Really? That's a really good movie. One of my favs of all time. You've got to watch that one.

Dr. Raymond Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayorâ€" real wrath-of-God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky! Rivers and seas boiling!

The devil does not hunt after those who are lost; he hunts after those who are aware, those who are close to God. He takes from them trust in God and begins to afflict them with self-assurance, logic, thinking, criticism. Therefore we should not trust our logical minds. Never believe your thoughts. Live simply and without thinking too much, like a child with his father. Faith without too much thinking works wonders. The logical mind hinders the Grace of God and miracles.

:eek2:    Having the mind of a child??  

Matthew 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[Sophus]

Unicorns are not unlimited and unfathomable beings.

Huh? Unicorns aren't real. They can be whatever I want them to be. You might as well argue that dragons can't really breathe fire.

[Achronos]

I want to know what's wrong with existential nihilism.

That would be just too bleak, so it can't possibly be true.

And if we're doing biblical quotes, Achronos, how about:

Romans 8:24 For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Or as Bertrand Russell put it: "We may define faith, as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We speak only of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence."

Faith is the way in which one thinks. I believe I told you that already.  It's not a matter of observable evidence, it's a matter of a way of thinking.

Have you ever wondered and asked for yourself, why is it that some atheists have resorted to belief later on in their lives?  I can't speak for them, but certainly for myself, I see vanity in a cosmos without God.