True Purpose of the Holy Bible.

[gsaint]

The bible is made up of 66 books that span over thousands of years so why do you believe that Romans 13 can truly sum up the what the entire bible means? Are you just making fun of the Bible? If you want to make fun I can see your point (although I don't see the humor in it) but if you are truly trying to make an argument against the Bible I would have to say that your proof is lacking. I do not mean to be rude. I feel like if you are going to try to state what the Bible is about then there should be some personally study given to the subject. If you have personally studied all the books of the Bible and you conclude that it is to enslave others then I would have to say your earlier statement does not get your point across clearly.

[Gawen]

The bible is made up of 66 books that span over thousands of years

Some bibles have 66 'books'.
The Jewish bible as we know it today was compiled around 200BCE.

The Christian (so called New Testament) was written and complied between 50CE and 300BCE.

The span is 500 years, not thousands.

Thought I'd clear that up for ya.

[The Magic Pudding]

I tried using a bible as a resting place for a hot saucepan, but it left an ugly residue on the pot.
I tried a bible as a door stop, but it didn't seam weighty enough any time the wind blew.
A light bulb blew and I thought the bible might help, but standing on the bible I still couldn't reach the light.
I tried throwing it at some noisy wildlife, but it just didn't fly, the kookaburras just laughed.
There is that thing where a phone book is used to prevent obvious bruising when beating a prisoner.
I'll need a volunteer before I can test if the bible has maintained efficacy as an interrogation aid.

[gsaint]

The book of Genesis was written around 1400 to 1450 BC but and the last book to be written, which is Revelations (or letter), was written in 95 Ad. That would make it span thousands of years for the books to be written. Still the subject matter in the books span over thousands of years. Before those of the Jewish faith wrote down the books in the bible they had a very strict oral tradition.

If you would rather nick pick and tell jokes instead of supporting your original argument then I will seek other things to discuss.

[Velma]

The bible is made up of 66 books that span over thousands of years

Some bibles have 66 'books'.
The Jewish bible as we know it today was compiled around 200BCE.

The Christian (so called New Testament) was written and complied between 50CE and 300BCE.

The span is 500 years, not thousands.

Thought I'd clear that up for ya.

Even the christians have two different bibles - the catholic version has 73 books and the protestant version has 66.  

If I recall correctly, the bible was written over at least 3500 years and there is no telling how long various versions of the stories floated around in oral form before that.

[DJAkuma]

The bible is made up of 66 books that span over thousands of years so why do you believe that Romans 13 can truly sum up the what the entire bible means? Are you just making fun of the Bible? If you want to make fun I can see your point (although I don't see the humor in it) but if you are truly trying to make an argument against the Bible I would have to say that your proof is lacking. I do not mean to be rude. I feel like if you are going to try to state what the Bible is about then there should be some personally study given to the subject. If you have personally studied all the books of the Bible and you conclude that it is to enslave others then I would have to say your earlier statement does not get your point across clearly.

The bible was probably not expressly written to be used to control the sheep but it most certainly has been widely used for exactly that. Much the same way that the internet wasn't created to propagate porn but to deny that that is what it's mostly used for would be ignorant.

[terranus]

Romans 13
1Everyone must submit to governing authorities... 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience. 6 Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons... 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect.

So I guess this means that all the founding fathers of America are going to hell for rebelling against Britain?  lol

[Gawen]

The book of Genesis was written around 1400 to 1450 BC but and the last book to be written, which is Revelations (or letter), was written in 95 Ad. That would make it span thousands of years for the books to be written. Still the subject matter in the books span over thousands of years. Before those of the Jewish faith wrote down the books in the bible they had a very strict oral tradition.

If you would rather nick pick and tell jokes instead of supporting your original argument then I will seek other things to discuss.

Codex Sinaiticus: It is the oldest complete (Greek only) manuscript of the New Testament and some books of the Hebrew Bible was made around 350 CE.
Codex London: One of the oldest surviving manuscripts of the Torah was made in the 10th century.
Syriac Pentateuch: The earliest known dated Biblical manuscript. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy in Syriac is the earliest known dated Biblical manuscript. It was written by Deacon John at Amida (modern Diyarbakir in south eastern Turkey) in 463 CE.
The oldest extant pieces of manuscripts of Genesis are twenty-four fragments dating from between 150 BCE and AD 70 CE.

Now, if you can cough up a manuscript written around 1450 BCE, you'd be the most revered man in the world.

[Asmodean]

I tried using a bible as a resting place for a hot saucepan, but it left an ugly residue on the pot.
I tried a bible as a door stop, but it didn't seam weighty enough any time the wind blew.
A light bulb blew and I thought the bible might help, but standing on the bible I still couldn't reach the light.
I tried throwing it at some noisy wildlife, but it just didn't fly, the kookaburras just laughed.
There is that thing where a phone book is used to prevent obvious bruising when beating a prisoner.
I'll need a volunteer before I can test if the bible has maintained efficacy as an interrogation aid.

Does it have to be whole to have a purpose..?

Kindling, paper planes, toilet paper, object-to-be-thrown-at-annoying-door-to-door-evangelists..? Any of those uses it might be good for..?  

[DJAkuma]

I tried using a bible as a resting place for a hot saucepan, but it left an ugly residue on the pot.
I tried a bible as a door stop, but it didn't seam weighty enough any time the wind blew.
A light bulb blew and I thought the bible might help, but standing on the bible I still couldn't reach the light.
I tried throwing it at some noisy wildlife, but it just didn't fly, the kookaburras just laughed.
There is that thing where a phone book is used to prevent obvious bruising when beating a prisoner.
I'll need a volunteer before I can test if the bible has maintained efficacy as an interrogation aid.

Does it have to be whole to have a purpose..?

Kindling, paper planes, toilet paper, object-to-be-thrown-at-annoying-door-to-door-evangelists..? Any of those uses it might be good for..?  

Don't forget rolling papers

[theclassicist]

Codex Sinaiticus: It is the oldest complete (Greek only) manuscript of the New Testament and some books of the Hebrew Bible was made around 350 CE.
Codex London: One of the oldest surviving manuscripts of the Torah was made in the 10th century.
Syriac Pentateuch: The earliest known dated Biblical manuscript. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy in Syriac is the earliest known dated Biblical manuscript. It was written by Deacon John at Amida (modern Diyarbakir in south eastern Turkey) in 463 CE.
The oldest extant pieces of manuscripts of Genesis are twenty-four fragments dating from between 150 BCE and AD 70 CE.

Now, if you can cough up a manuscript written around 1450 BCE, you'd be the most revered man in the world.


Gawen, I never thought I would be doing this, but im sticking up for the theists here.
All you have done is show us a list of 'extant' texts.  Extant means the oldest surviving version.  For instance, a classical text such as 'The Civil War' by Julius Caesar was originally written in the late 1st Century BCE but the newest surviving (extant) copy is from much later (the middle ages, I believe).  This does not mean that the book was originally written in the middle ages.  
However, we can prove this book was written in the late 1st Century BCE as there is plenty of correlating data, such as cross-cultural références to politics, war, art, literature, architecture and so forth.
Similarly, some books of the bible (ie the book of Job) can be dated at 2000 BCE because of such références.  I would not say that I precisely agree with that because I dont know much about biblical archaeology, but it seems pretty silly to say the bible was not written over thousands of years, with a very, very long period of oral history/myth behind it.
This is a big gripe i have with other atheists - most of the time they seem to think the bible's just this childish little book that was slapped together in a little period of time by blithering idiots.  Thats not true.  And we have to get out of that mindset if were going to help people get out of this gilded cage and help move societies forward.
The bible (I have studied almost every chapter of every book) is a frightening book.  There are threats everywhere not to disobey or disbelieve.  Terrible threats.  Look foryourself if you dont believe me. Old Testament or New.  Its a collection of literary masterpieces, and its exactly the sort of thing which has been used and is still used by various people in various positions of power to keep others in check.  (Of course, it is a great many other things as well, but if you dont believe the bible is used for intimidation and control, just ask anyone who's ever been to a Roman Catholic school, or a fundamentalist Protestant church service).

[theclassicist]

Sorry if im being a pain in the neck, Gawen.  Just saying.

[Too Few Lions]

I don't buy that the Book of Job is 4000 years old, or that much of the Old Testament (other than the first parts of the Book of Genesis) are any older than 2500 - 3000 years old. Religions have always had a bad habit of claiming their holy books and myths are far older than they actually are, as if it gives them some extra credence and authority.

[Gawen]

Oh...crap. I had forgotten this thread!!

Sorry. Let me catch up tomorrow.

[Gawen]

But before I go, the oldest mms fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls is Qumran 1Q linen 390 BCE-600 CE. So when someone writes that such and such was written 4000 BCE, one must wonder how they came up with that number. Surely, there must have been writings before 390 BCE, but no one knows when the oldest part of the Bible was written and what it consisted of. Papyrus only began around the third millennium BCE and The Epic of Gilgamesh, on clay tablets somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE.