Burning a Holy Text

[Jac3510]

Haven't followed the thread. Just posting to say that I would personally oppose the burning of any book, not on legal grounds (free speech and all), nor on religious grounds (if a holy book is true, I hardly think God will be hurt by burning His Word), but on basic grounds of propriety. We ought to disagree without being disagreeable.

Politically, I also think it's a bad idea, but a pragmatic argument is far less persuasive (to me) than a moral one. All this does is just run the risk of ticking off a bunch of Muslims. What is to be gained in that? That's just gratifying childish desires rather than doing the hard, serious, and adult work of issuing a measured response (or, morally, returning evil with good).

[i_am_i]

First Amendment rights is really all that's applicable here, and the First Amendment was written to protect unpopular speech. "Safe" speech doen't need a Bill of Rights.

[Sophus]

First Amendment rights is really all that's applicable here, and the First Amendment was written to protect unpopular speech. "Safe" speech doen't need a Bill of Rights.

Well, as I mentioned earlier it's more complicated than that. They were denied the permit (toxic emissions from the ink in the books).

Plus, the First Amendment actually doesn't protect all forms of speech. Threats, hate speech, certain calls to violence, certain things that can incite violence, character assassination, etc.

[i_am_i]

First Amendment rights is really all that's applicable here, and the First Amendment was written to protect unpopular speech. "Safe" speech doen't need a Bill of Rights.

Well, as I mentioned earlier it's more complicated than that. They were denied the permit (toxic emissions from the ink in the books).

Plus, the First Amendment actually doesn't protect all forms of speech. Threats, hate speech, certain calls to violence, certain things that can incite violence, character assassination, etc.

True, very true.

[Jac3510]

First Amendment rights is really all that's applicable here, and the First Amendment was written to protect unpopular speech. "Safe" speech doen't need a Bill of Rights.

Agreed. No one should tell these people that they can't do this (at least, not unless it violates some other law, ordinance, or statute, such as Sophus mentioned), just as we shouldn't say that the Ground Zero mosque can't be built. Of course it can. People have the legal right to do such things in this fantastic country of ours, and I thank God for it.

There is, however, a difference in cannot and ought not. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. We are social beings, and we have to live with other people. Sometimes, it is best to put the interests of others before our own for the sake of community. That is precisely how I see this issue. It is, essentially, one of simple respect. I can vehemently disagree with Muslims of all stripes. That doesn't mean I have to be disrespectful toward them.

[PoopShoot]

Certain people have decided to donate arabic bibles to the church so that they will be burning bibles with the Qur'ans.

[humblesmurph]

First Amendment rights is really all that's applicable here, and the First Amendment was written to protect unpopular speech. "Safe" speech doen't need a Bill of Rights.

Agreed. No one should tell these people that they can't do this (at least, not unless it violates some other law, ordinance, or statute, such as Sophus mentioned), just as we shouldn't say that the Ground Zero mosque can't be built. Of course it can. People have the legal right to do such things in this fantastic country of ours, and I thank God for it.

There is, however, a difference in cannot and ought not. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. We are social beings, and we have to live with other people. Sometimes, it is best to put the interests of others before our own for the sake of community. That is precisely how I see this issue. It is, essentially, one of simple respect. I can vehemently disagree with Muslims of all stripes. That doesn't mean I have to be disrespectful toward them.

Chris, this makes me think.  I gotta think there are a lot of pretty important Christians thinking the exact way you are.  Why doesn't somebody with some clout just ask him not to do this?  Whose is the most famous American preacher?  Why doesn't he just fly over their and ask this guy to stop?  The sate can't stop this, but this one guy with 50 followers can certainly be persuaded to stand down on such an ill conceived Idea. Right?  I can't believe this is going to happen.  On television.  In the United States.  in 2010.   :verysad:    literally.

[Jac3510]

Chris, this makes me think.  I gotta think there are a lot of pretty important Christians thinking the exact way you are.  Why doesn't somebody with some clout just ask him not to do this?  Whose is the most famous American preacher?  Why doesn't he just fly over their and ask this guy to stop?  The sate can't stop this, but this one guy with 50 followers can certainly be persuaded to stand down on such an ill conceived Idea. Right?  I can't believe this is going to happen.  On television.  In the United States.  in 2010.   :verysad:    literally.

I doubt one person, no matter how much clout, could do anything about it. The Christian community ought to stand up in strong protest against this, however. Organizations like Focus on the Family, In Touch Ministries, Reasonable Faith, Leading the Way, and a host of others ought to be condemning this publicly. Now, to be honest, I don't know if they are, as I only just heard about this a when I read this thread. I have been rather out of the loop on political issues lately. But to your question directly, there are a lot of preachers, especially of the Protestant persuasion, who firmly believe that they answer to no one but God. In one sense, of course, they are right, but that is true of all of us, not just the preacher. On the other hand, Jesus clearly said, "Do unto others," and He will judge us based on how we treated our fellow man, and in that light, they have an obvious responsibility to their people.

I'll will write an email to the man myself as well as ask a few people I know to do the same. I doubt we'll be able to stop him, but the least we can do is voice our opposition. It's a sad day, I think, for both America and Christianity--for America, because it puts us at risk, and for Christianity, because furthers negative stereotypes that need no help (just as it does Islam no good when a jihadist gets on television and calls for the death of all Jews and Americans).

[PoopShoot]

Focus on the Family,

those guys are a hate group who ENJOY when shit ike this happens.  They don't want to stop it, they want 50 new martyrs for their Fascist crusade.

[Jac3510]

Huckabee's comments on the matter. Very balanced.

[notself]

If Huckabee had won the Republican nomination for President, it is highly probable that he would have won the election.

[humblesmurph]

If Huckabee had won the Republican nomination for President, it is highly probable that he would have won the election.

i think so too. He's a reasonable man.

[Sophus]

If Huckabee had won the Republican nomination for President, it is highly probable that he would have won the election.

i think so too. He's a reasonable man.

I think he's a moron, but maybe that's just me. If it weren't for the fact that these whackos in Gainesville didn't have the permit or were trying to piss of radicals who are going to kill Westerners and Western allies in retribution, I would say go for it. I don't care who's offended by it. Yet to censor art on any level is thought policing. Christians are upset by Piss Christ... So what? I can be offended by anything, but that should never be a reason to strip away your right to say it. We need to break the taboo of speaking illy of religion, not reaffirm it. Hell, that's why we have the First Amendment; this is what the French Enlightenment was largely about.

Those comparing this to the "Ground Zero" mosque are just as ridiculous.

Thing is though, Koran burning will probably happen sooner or later. In fact, I bet Fred Phelps is thinking right now, "Damn, why didn't I think of that?" Somebody will use this to get famous.

Reasonable Faith

Ugh, dunno if anyone else is unfortunate enough to have heard of them but I hate that ministry almost as much as Focus on the Family. The lies and the oh-so selective information that guy uses.   Not to mention the strawmen.....

[philosoraptor]

Apparently, the FBI paid a visit to the Rev Jones, asking him not to do this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/fbi-urges-minister-to-call-off-koran-burning/article1701409/

[Thumpalumpacus]

Indeed.  Almost makes me wish I were riding a truck again.