Burning a Holy Text

[karadan]

That's only because christianity has already had its enlightenment. Doesn't mean they're any less fanatical though. This guy is being deliberately provocative in the full knowledge the damage it will do. That, to me, it just as wanton as blowing up a bus to prove a point. His actions are just a few degrees of separation away from actually pushing the 'armed' button - in my opinion.

[tymygy]

I shake with absolute anger and revulsion that a man who claims to be a pastor, who resides over a congregation named DOVE WORLD OUTREACH CENTER will gleefully and cheerfully reach out to other faiths by burning their sacred texts.

BUT GOD TOLD HIM TO DO IT!

So of course its okay.

besides, this is nothing for god, here are a few examples of some things that are a "tad' worse than burning books.

"And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under the axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem." (II Samuel 12:31)

Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:16-18)

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)

"And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain." (Deuteronomy 2:34)

"And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Hesbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities we took for a prey to ourselves." (Deuteronomy 3:6-7)

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:29-30)

Just a few  

[Sophus]

The only reason why this koran burning is making such huge news is because the country is so Islamaphobic right now.

Hmm...  I'd like to see an argument for this.  It might be true, but in a convoluted way that in FZ's words, goes beyond the fringe of audience comprehension.

Fred Phelps burned a Koran in public at Washington DC in 2008 and nobody said a word.

I agree that one does not have to respect the views of others. However that's not the same thing as deliberately doing something, you know full well will piss them off, because of the views they hold. One can possibly debate the a person about their views without antagonising them. But simply desecrating something somebody values is just fucking stupid and bad mannered. A Quran has emotional value for a Muslim, that's a fact. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality and I don't think it's a good idea to ignore reality, isn't that exactly what a rationalist world view is trying to fight against, ignoring reality?

Desecrating a symbol, any symbol, is fine as long as it's not your symbol that's being desecrated. Is that true? What about this?

I'm not necessarily talking about desecration, just anything that can be interpreted as disrespectful. The simplest political cartoon can outrage some nuts. If we're going to say symbols of a religion are off limits we might as well say speaking ill of the religion itself is off limits and revert back to the dark ages.

As for the swastika, it has a lot more history to it than the Nazis. A lot more. It's a shame the west still links it exclusively to them. Also, I have no problem with someone burning an American flag. Regardless of context, I must add, because burning an American flag is actually the proper way to put an old dying one out of its misery. This country is far from perfect and anyone who wishes to express that through burning a flag is welcome to do so. Not my style, but so long as they don't set nothing else on fire that doesn't belong to them, why should I care?

[PoopShoot]

Fred Phelps burned a Koran in public at Washington DC in 2008 and nobody said a word.

Many of us have realized not to feed the troll.  Even foreigners know he's not exactly an American representative.

[Sophus]

Fred Phelps burned a Koran in public at Washington DC in 2008 and nobody said a word.

Many of us have realized not to feed the troll.  Even foreigners know he's not exactly an American representative.

Right. But suddenly they're not super crazy trolls anymore when you have so many Republicans (some Democrats) and Sarah Palins speaking out against a group of down town New Yorker muslim's Constitutional right to build a community center. In the past few months the country has gone so insane and hypersensitive to muslims, the media sees this nutjob in Florida as representing this new anti-muslim atmosphere.

[PoopShoot]

Right. But suddenly they're not super crazy trolls anymore when you have so many Republicans (some Democrats) and Sarah Palins speaking out against a group of down town New Yorker muslim's Constitutional right to build a community center. In the past few months the country has gone so insane and hypersensitive to muslims, the media sees this nutjob in Florida as representing this new anti-muslim atmosphere.

But the Florida nutjob doesn't have the bad rep Phelps has.  It's not that I don't understand your point or even that I disagree, I'm just pointing out that the public and the world at large are looking at it through the glasses of reputation.  An upstanding pastor has more clout on the world stage than Phlps.  When Phelps does it it's just crazy ol' Phelps at it again, when Florida wacko does it, it's an upstanding American.

[epepke]

Fred Phelps burned a Koran in public at Washington DC in 2008 and nobody said a word.

I know that, but I don't recall people not saying that the country was Islamophobic back then.

Still, it is interesting to think about what differences there are.

[Whitney]

I can't tell you how pissed I'm going to be if these idiots cause more terrorist attacks here just because they can't help but be bigoted fools.

[epepke]

I can't tell you how pissed I'm going to be if these idiots cause more terrorist attacks here just because they can't help but be bigoted fools.

More than last time or the time before?

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can't tell you how pissed I'm going to be if these idiots cause more terrorist attacks here just because they can't help but be bigoted fools.

While I agree with your opinion, It takes two to tango.  There also must be fundamentalist fools who regard those books as worth killing for.

[Whitney]

I can't tell you how pissed I'm going to be if these idiots cause more terrorist attacks here just because they can't help but be bigoted fools.

While I agree with your opinion, It takes two to tango.  There also must be fundamentalist fools who regard those books as worth killing for.

Right...it's just that in this case it's like wearing red around a bull then wondering why you got attacked.  Not that it would make the terrorists any more justified it's just that much more infuriating when people go out of their way to try to provoke an already angry group and then the rest of us have to suffer the consequences.

[Sophus]

It may be difficult to tell if another terrorist attack would be due to Koran burning alone (Fred Phelps, btw, is planning to have his own koran bonfire   :crazy:

[PoopShoot]

(Fred Phelps, btw, is planning to have his own koran bonfire     )

I sure hope he does it without a permit and gets himself in trouble.  Of course, being in Kansas, he might have an area where he doesn't need permission.