Burning a Holy Text

[deekayfry]

We have briefly, briefly touched on a Qu'ran burning in the Mosque at Ground Zero thread.  This monster has finally taken a life of its own and has become more mainstream and widespread.

A little background

Pastor Terry Jones from the Dove World Outreach Center plans to burn the Qu'ran on September 11th.

This sewage filth is bad enough if were done on say a boring day like October 18th, but doing it on September 11th truly does give victory to the radical jihadist everywhere and further demoralizes all the other 99.99999% peaceful followers of the Islamic faith.

This is still not bad enough :shake:

I shake with absolute anger and revulsion that a man who claims to be a pastor, who resides over a congregation named DOVE WORLD OUTREACH CENTER will gleefully and cheerfully reach out to other faiths by burning their sacred texts.

[PoopShoot]

If not for the potential problems it might cause our troops (my brother included), I would fully support it.  Not because I disproportionately hate Muslims, but because I value free speech more than I value the right to be offended.

[Sophus]

Why should he care if Christian American soldiers die? They'll all go to heaven.  

You know, we've been known to limit freedom of speech before if it could be shown it was likely to provoke violence. I'd say this fits.

[PoopShoot]

Why should he care if Christian American soldiers die? They'll all go to heaven.  

I've an atheist brother who would have an issue with this.

You know, we've been known to limit freedom of speech before if it could be shown it was likely to provoke violence. I'd say this fits.

I somehow think that would enrage a few teabaggers and Faux Noise viewers and we all know that we must keep the teabaggers happy.

[Reginus]

You know, we've been known to limit freedom of speech before if it could be shown it was likely to provoke violence. I'd say this fits.

What are some examples of times when we have done this?

[Diosjenin]

I shake with absolute anger and revulsion that a man who claims to be a pastor, who resides over a congregation named DOVE WORLD OUTREACH CENTER will gleefully and cheerfully reach out to other faiths by burning their sacred texts.

You and me both.  It's the name that really gets me.  That's the kind of name you expect to hear associated with the Mennonites.

 - Diosjenin -

[Sophus]

You know, we've been known to limit freedom of speech before if it could be shown it was likely to provoke violence. I'd say this fits.

What are some examples of times when we have done this?

Hate speech is one example. Also...

i]Brandenburg v. Ohio[/i]"] that speech advocating violence is protected unless the speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

Trouble here I suppose is: is it lawless action? considering it is, after all, war.

There are other forms of speech which are not protected as well, such as character assassination.

I've an atheist brother who would have an issue with this.

I was only being sardonic toward this very type of mentality; mocking it. Didn't actually mean it myself.

[PoopShoot]

I was only being sardonic toward this very type of mentality; mocking it. Didn't actually mean it myself.

I had figured as much.  I was merely using moist language to say that there are indeed atheists in foxholes.  Or in his current case, fairly nice barracks outside of the actual warzone.

[deekayfry]

I wanted to quote a couple of you but that would be too much work.  So this is a response to blanket all of it.

I very, very generally support Pastor Jone's right to freedom of speech.  This same support derives from supporting an Islamic cultural center (now incorrectly deemed mosque) proposed to be built some distance away from ground zero (now incorrectly deemed built ON ground zero).

Even though I don't agree with Pastor Jones, I am not, heaven forbid, I am not asking for our government to intervene or put a stop to it.  Yes, key world leaders including those in America have asked Pastor Jones to refrain from this activity, it is not the same as a government official filing an injunction in court to prevent Pastor Jones from his free demonstration.  This does not however stop private citizens from exercising their rights to put a stop to it.

What I don't like is that his Church is named Dove World Outreach Center.  You can't slice this name any other way other than it wholeheartedly at least in letter imply that this is a place that wants to reach out to everyone in the world regardless of religion.  With the word DOVE tacked onto it, implies peaceful.

I am sorry, no actually, I am not sorry, but if  go onto doing something so blatantly violent you shouldn't be standing next to a sign with words like that.  I cringe every time I type "pastor" because this is not a pastor leading his people to do what is right.

His actions and with wretched thanks to very particular politicians (read Palin and Gingritch) railing against an Islamic center in New York have really ruined any stride we have made to reach out to those who are different from us.

[Thumpalumpacus]

He has the right of free speech.  He should also have the brains to calculate the fallout from his actions, and act accordingly.  He wants to burn Qurans?  Fine.  Let us not let him dodge any responsibility when Afghan Muslims kill Americans in retaliation for his idiocy.  

Put his feet to the fire, that's what I say.

[Velma]

While the burning of any book bothers me, it is his right to do so.  However, with freedom comes responsibility, so like Thumpalumpacus said, he should not be allowed to dodge any responsibility for anything that happens because of his idiocy.

[happyukatheist]

How to make friends in one easy lessen!.

This asshole is going to get every muslim on the planet mad at the west.

If this goes ahead, i dont think Al-Qaeda will find a better way of getting new recuits if they looked for a 1000 years.

Freedom of speech is one thing, this is idiotic and dangerous.

[Har]

This would be a perfect opportunity for the Muslims to actually show that their religion is that of peace instead of lashing out at the nearest innocents like a bunch of dumb, enraged animals.
If I were still a Christian and some imam in some foreign country publicly burned the Bible, I wouldn't go and seek out the nearest Muslim and blow his brains out because of it.

[Tank]

Petraeus: Koran burning plan will endanger US troops

The top US commander in Afghanistan has warned that troops' lives will be in danger if an American church sticks to its plan to burn copies of the Koran.

Gen David Petraeus said the action could cause problems "not just in Kabul, but everywhere in the world".

Pastor Terry Jones, of the Dove World Outreach Center, plans to put copies of the holy book in a bonfire to mark this week's anniversary of the 9/11 attacks...

Additional commentary.

[Tank]

This would be a perfect opportunity for the Muslims to actually show that their religion is that of peace instead of lashing out at the nearest innocents like a bunch of dumb, enraged animals.
If I were still a Christian and some imam in some foreign country publicly burned the Bible, I wouldn't go and seek out the nearest Muslim and blow his brains out because of it.

Unfortunately not all people are as thoughtful or tolerant as you.

There are some activist Muslims in the UK who wanted to protest about the Iraqi war at the funeral processions of the dead British soldiers. Their application to hold a 'peaceful demonstration' was refused. They screamed about discrimination and freedom of speech. The judge pointed out that they could protest, but not on the day of a funeral procession as it could lead to a 'disturbance of the peace'. Needless to say they didn't bother to protest on a day when a funeral procession was not planned thus validating the judge's ruling.

Burning a holy book shouldn't insight violence if all people are reasonable. But not all people are reasonable so burning holy books will insight violence. The only reason the pastor is burning those books is to insight hatred and violent reaction. This is the thin line where freedom of speech becomes freedom to abuse. Freedom of speech is great as long as each party respects the other parties right to differ and hold there own opinion. How and where one draws the line about freedom of speech is so difficult that in the end no line is drawn. This is when ignorant arseholes abuse the privileges of freedom by forgetting that with freedom of speech/action comes responsibility for the effects of those words/actions.