Can Something Come from Nothing and Is God Eternal?

[NathanielZhu]

This is a video of me trying to answer it.
It may not be as good as what you'd expect. Maybe.

[youtube:xsmqmelb]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dcibEAs-Z8[/youtube:xsmqmelb]

[Tank]

Quite impressive, you sound like a young Carl Sagan.

One point jarred with me. You state that the universe can be infinity old. Could you expand on that point please.

Regards
Chris

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[Dretlin]

Good job sir!

[humblesmurph]

I dig the video.  The problem is that it simply won't hold water with theists.  Our laws of physics state among other things way over my head, that matter can be neither destroyed nor made it can simply transfer forms. A theist, as alluded to by Chris, could simply state that the belief that the Universe is eternal is as much a leap of faith as the belief in god or gods.

 For whatever reason it seems intuitively attractive to think at some point in the past there was nothing before there was something.  God addresses this, physics does not.

 The video  blows a hole in one of the ways that Christians try to logically or scientifically prove God's existence.  However, this has been done ad nauseum for many many years.  

Most reasonable Christians already understand that their God can't be proven on scientific grounds.

[Tank]

Please don't take any criticism to heart. As another new member remarked recently, 'We're a tough audience!' I for one fully appreciate the effort you have put into the vid and while the arguments have been dealt with before and lines battle lines drawn there are many who have not been exposed to them and will benefit from watching your video.

[pinkocommie]

Can I just point out that if this were the only post of a religious poster, people would be angrily pointing out the fact that posting a vid as the first and only post is spam and tisk tisking about it, but it seems when it's an atheist spamming as a first post, people seem pretty OK with it?  This double standard seems entirely unfair to me, and helps to illustrate how some people here receive religious vs. non religious noobs in an entirely different way.

[Davin]

Can I just point out that if this were the only post of a religious poster, people would be angrily pointing out the fact that posting a vid as the first and only post is spam and tisk tisking about it, but it seems when it's an atheist spamming as a first post, people seem pretty OK with it?  This double standard seems entirely unfair to me, and helps to illustrate how some people here receive religious vs. non religious noobs in an entirely different way.

I agree, that's why I didn't watch the video or respond because it looks like a drive by spammer.

[Tank]

Can I just point out that if this were the only post of a religious poster, people would be angrily pointing out the fact that posting a vid as the first and only post is spam and tisk tisking about it, but it seems when it's an atheist spamming as a first post, people seem pretty OK with it?  This double standard seems entirely unfair to me, and helps to illustrate how some people here receive religious vs. non religious noobs in an entirely different way.

Yep! You're right. That means I'll have to watch Christian spammer videos.  

[pinkocommie]

Can I just point out that if this were the only post of a religious poster, people would be angrily pointing out the fact that posting a vid as the first and only post is spam and tisk tisking about it, but it seems when it's an atheist spamming as a first post, people seem pretty OK with it?  This double standard seems entirely unfair to me, and helps to illustrate how some people here receive religious vs. non religious noobs in an entirely different way.

Yep! You're right. That means I'll have to watch Christian spammer videos.  

I would think it means spam is spam even if you agree with it.

[Tank]

I would think it means spam is spam even if you agree with it.

Well that does raise the question of what spam actually is. If one took junk mail as an analogy, it's only junk if one is not interested in the subject. For example a fishing promotion dropping on the doormat of a keen golfer is junk while the same would be welcome by a keep fisherman. If a post is 'on topic' to the appropriate forum can the post be considered 'spam'. Would the OP posted on a Christian forum be considered spam? I would think it would be. So have we actually discovered that spam is context sensitive? I think we may well have done so. Hmmm interesting thought.

[pinkocommie]

I'm going by forum rules on what is spam:

NO SPAM: If this is your first visit to the forum and you post a link, copy paste text, etc it will be considered spam and may be removed or partially removed by a moderator at their own discretion without notice.

If you really want to promote religious participation on the forum, you'd treat religious people the same as non-religious.  The only way to do that is to call all spam spam regardless of content.

[Tank]

I'm going by forum rules on what is spam:

NO SPAM: If this is your first visit to the forum and you post a link, copy paste text, etc it will be considered spam and may be removed or partially removed by a moderator at their own discretion without notice.

If you really want to promote religious participation on the forum, you'd treat religious people the same as non-religious.  The only way to do that is to call all spam spam regardless of content.

Agreed. By our forum's rules the OP of this thread would be considered spam, it coincidentally happened to be something I found interesting so I watched it. So shoot me  

[pinkocommie]

I'm going by forum rules on what is spam:

NO SPAM: If this is your first visit to the forum and you post a link, copy paste text, etc it will be considered spam and may be removed or partially removed by a moderator at their own discretion without notice.

If you really want to promote religious participation on the forum, you'd treat religious people the same as non-religious.  The only way to do that is to call all spam spam regardless of content.

Agreed. By our forum's rules the OP of this thread would be considered spam, it coincidentally happened to be something I found interesting so I watched it. So shoot me  

I don't think that's a very fair response.  You yourself have posted a few times on the subject of making this a more hospitable or at least fair place for theists to have a dialog with non-theists.  One would think you would be more receptive and less defensive when someone points out a time when you yourself are behaving in an inconsistent manner to that end.

[Tank]

I'm going by forum rules on what is spam:

NO SPAM: If this is your first visit to the forum and you post a link, copy paste text, etc it will be considered spam and may be removed or partially removed by a moderator at their own discretion without notice.

If you really want to promote religious participation on the forum, you'd treat religious people the same as non-religious.  The only way to do that is to call all spam spam regardless of content.

Agreed. By our forum's rules the OP of this thread would be considered spam, it coincidentally happened to be something I found interesting so I watched it. So shoot me  

I don't think that's a very fair response.  You yourself have posted a few times on the subject of making this a more hospitable or at least fair place for theists to have a dialog with non-theists.  One would think you would be more receptive and less defensive when someone points out a time when you yourself are behaving in an inconsistent manner to that end.

Sorry I'm not perfect. That's what the smilies are for. I'm agreeing with you that my actions have been inconsistent. I'm making a joke out of it to try and defuse the feeling I have of being wrong.

[pinkocommie]

No, I'm sorry for making such a big deal about it.  It doesn't even really matter.  I think I'm just in a scrappy mood today, so I'm arguing wherever there is an argument to be had.  I didn't mean to go after you specifically, I'm sorry.