the universe is designed

[Tank]

how do you believe the universe got here?

I'll offer my thoughts on this, at the moment nobody knows for sure, not you, not I, not anybody. There is a lot of speculation, some structured and based on mathematical principles and the scientific method, some on spurious wish fulfilment and mythological superstition. Now as the former process has continually improved our understanding of how the universe actually works while the latter has single-handedly been the main cause of preventing our understanding of how the universe actually works it doesn't take much intelligence to understand where the smart money is.

[Davin]

pinkocommie, how am i supposed to debate with you if you won't state a thesis?  here's how our debates work.

me: you're wrong because you believe x
you: i don't believe x
me: what do you believe
you: i don't know.

We can point out the flaws in your argument without the requirement of replacing your argument with something else. I'll use an metaphorical example: If you go around saying how awesome your house is to everyone, and someone points out that the foundation is total crap, it's not their responsibility to replace your foundation. It's yours.

Here's an example of someone just speculating what you believe:

You're either a Christian or a Muslim that believes that the light from stars that are billions of light years away, somehow got to the planet in less than 10,000 years. To put it another way, you think that somehow the light traveling at the speed of light from a star that would take 1,000,000,000 years to reach us, got to this planet in less than 10,000 years.

[Tank]

"Natural selection is the process by which certain heritable traitsâ€"those that make it more likely for an organism to survive and successfully reproduce â€"become more common in a population over successive generations. It is a key mechanism of evolution."

Lots of Christians subscribe to the ideas contained in the theory of evolution, too. You, I take it, do not. So that makes you a creationist, doesn't it?

as for creationists, atheists define those theists who deny evolution as creationists and those who believe evolution as IDers.  I believe in evolution i just believe that it is guided.

I am I, how do you define the noun for the word design?

So you are a Teist, a Theistic Evolutionist. Another cop-out answer. Look, you can believe whatever you like but don't expect to be able to support it with any rational, scientifically rigorous evidence. You're just on a wish fulfilment trip, you are in practice, delusional.

Still trying to get somebody to bite on your semantic argument strategy?

Oh and this is starting to smell of 'bait and switch' another disingenuous debating technique favoured by the terminally failed.

[pinkocommie]

I don't think the universe was created by an intelligence.

I don't think the universe was designed by blind forces.

pinkocommie, how am i supposed to debate with you if you won't state a thesis?  here's how our debates work.

me: you're wrong because you believe x
you: i don't believe x
me: what do you believe
you: i don't know.  

how do you believe the universe got here?

I don't need to fake knowing how the universe came to be to argue against an illogical assertion regarding how the universe came to be.  I'm sorry that your position is so difficult for you to debate that you feel you need to divert attention away from what you're asserting, but I'd say that might be an indication that you might be putting your faith in a poor argument.

[i_am_i]

I am I, how do you define the noun for the word design?

Call me J.

Do you mean the word designer? The word means one who designs. A designer designs.

I see that you are somehow convinced that this universe and everything in it was designed and so there must have been a designer of this universe and everything in it. Am I correct about this?

[Whitney]

[harriet_tubman]

how do you believe the universe got here?

 There is a lot of speculation, some structured and based on mathematical principles and the scientific method, some on spurious wish fulfilment and mythological superstition. Now as the former process has continually improved our understanding of how the universe actually works while the latter has single-handedly been the main cause of preventing our understanding of how the universe actually works it doesn't take much intelligence to understand where the smart money is.

how about backing up your statement with evidence, tank.

[Tanker]

how do you believe the universe got here?

 There is a lot of speculation, some structured and based on mathematical principles and the scientific method, some on spurious wish fulfilment and mythological superstition. Now as the former process has continually improved our understanding of how the universe actually works while the latter has single-handedly been the main cause of preventing our understanding of how the universe actually works it doesn't take much intelligence to understand where the smart money is.

how about backing up your statement with evidence, tank.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/
http://scienceray.com/astronomy/how-the-universe-started/
http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/acosmbb.html
http://astrophysics.suite101.com/article.cfm/origins_of_the_universe
http://www.kheper.net/cosmos/universe/universe.htm


This isent secret information.

[harriet_tubman]

We can point out the flaws in your argument without the requirement of replacing your argument with something else.

wrong.  as sartre said even a non-choice is still a choice.  if you visit stonehenge there are three categories of answers as to how it got there.

1. humans built it
2. there is not evidence to come to a conclusion
3. some other intelligent agency such as aliens built it
4. it is the result of some random, natural, blind force

regarding the origin of the universe.  if you're an atheist by default you believe its origin is random or unintended.  if you're an agnostic then you believe there is not enough evidence to make an intelligent decision.

You're either a Christian or a Muslim that believes that the light from stars that are billions of light years away, somehow got to the planet in less than 10,000 years. To put it another way, you think that somehow the light traveling at the speed of light from a star that would take 1,000,000,000 years to reach us, got to this planet in less than 10,000 years.

don't understand your point

[harriet_tubman]

You're just on a wish fulfilment trip, you are in practice, delusional.

Tank, with all due respect, i'd like to see some evidence to support this.

[Tank]

You're just on a wish fulfilment trip, you are in practice, delusional.

Tank, with all due respect, i'd like to see some evidence to support this.

Absolutely! I refer you back to every post you have made so far.

[Davin]

We can point out the flaws in your argument without the requirement of replacing your argument with something else.

wrong.  as sartre said even a non-choice is still a choice.  if you visit stonehenge there are three categories of answers as to how it got there.

1. humans built it
2. there is not evidence to come to a conclusion
3. some other intelligent agency such as aliens built it
4. it is the result of some random, natural, blind force

regarding the origin of the universe.  if you're an atheist by default you believe its origin is random or unintended.  if you're an agnostic then you believe there is not enough evidence to make an intelligent decision.

Wrong on both a definition and responsibility of evidence. An atheist is just someone that doesn't believe in a god. So all it requires to be an atheist is to just not believe in any gods. There is no position an atheist must take to be an atheist, other than not believing in a god. Even if you don't accept this definition of "atheist" it doesn't matter because most atheists are not the atheists that you define.

Once again: just because I point out that your house is built on a faulty foundation, doesn't mean that I'm required to fix it for you. If I told you that I was god because one time I brought a dead giraffe back to life using my mind, would you have to offer an alternate explanation to counter my conclusion or am I required to provide the evidence for my assertion?

You're either a Christian or a Muslim that believes that the light from stars that are billions of light years away, somehow got to the planet in less than 10,000 years. To put it another way, you think that somehow the light traveling at the speed of light from a star that would take 1,000,000,000 years to reach us, got to this planet in less than 10,000 years.

don't understand your point

My point is that you hold the position that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.

[Tank]

how do you believe the universe got here?

 There is a lot of speculation, some structured and based on mathematical principles and the scientific method, some on spurious wish fulfilment and mythological superstition. Now as the former process has continually improved our understanding of how the universe actually works while the latter has single-handedly been the main cause of preventing our understanding of how the universe actually works it doesn't take much intelligence to understand where the smart money is.

how about backing up your statement with evidence, tank.

The collective works of Pythagoras, Galileo, Newton, Darwin, Hawkins, Einstein, Mendel, Rutherford, Fermi, Curie, Bohr, Heisenberg, Pauli, Davy, Piestley, Pasteur, Fleming, Nobel, etc, etc

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sc ... n_SI_units

See also http://go.ucsusa.org/RSI_list/index.php

On February 18, 2004, 62 leading scientists--Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors, and university chairs and presidents--signed a scientist's statement on scientific integrity in policymaking. Over the next four years, 15,000 U.S. scientists voiced their concern about the misuse of science by the George W. Bush administration.

Now show me how theology has improved humanities understanding of reality? Did a theologian at any time get involved with the design of your PC? No, of course not.

So we now have the following examples of your ignorance.

1) Probability Theory.
2) Stella fusion.
3) The efficacy of the scientific method to effectively describe reality.

Now on the basis of 'Once is luck, twice is coincidence and three times is a trend.', you are patently ignorant of those subjects which you preach and pontificate about.

Get real HT, you came here with nothing and you still have nothing because the world view that you cling to is intellectually bankrupt.

[Tank]

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/04/27/how-did-the-universe-start/
http://scienceray.com/astronomy/how-the-universe-started/
http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/acosmbb.html
http://astrophysics.suite101.com/article.cfm/origins_of_the_universe
http://www.kheper.net/cosmos/universe/universe.htm


This isent secret information.

[Tank]

this is more fun than day time TV, but only just!