Why does "don't know" must equal "God did it"?

[Munchkin Goddess]

I realize this topic probably has been brought up many time, but why do theist who can't explain certain things, turn to god? Especially when the answer is out there, already explained. To put it in better context, on Wednesday, I went to my "Does God Exist" discussion group. I am the only atheist there, and I am okay with that. There was this new guy there who claimed to be an atheist for around ten years. He wanted me to state what I believed, and I told him I could only respond to definitions of a God. For example, when Christians define God to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, etc figure, that I do not believe in the that because a God like that is impossible, given how things are in the natural world. So I asked him to define God, and he said something along the terms of a force that binds him and keeps him from merging with other things and guides him towards morality. That isn't what he said exactly but this happened about four days ago. I asked him what he meant by that and he states that he knows we are made up of atoms, but what keeps those atoms together to form himself and the fact that he is a conscience being? Also, what keeps his atoms from going through the wall, which is also made up of atoms. I will admit, I do not know exactly what keeps that from happening; however, topics such as that could be explained by a physicist. He even admitted that and that the information may be out there. The more I think about it, the more I think that he is just too lazy to find out. I haven't looked this information myself up yet, I have finals to worry about tomorrow. However, I do want to look to it up more because if something addresses something I do not know, I want to know if there is any information on the subject and what the answers might be. That does not mean that if I do not know at the time or ever, that I think "God did it." I think that, for now, we do not know and that is okay. Yet, he does know and he goes to god? He seemed intelligent and well researched about atheist, yet he stopped at physics? Instead he used his limited understanding to come up with a definition for god that may sound well thought out, but it is actually showing his lack of knowledge in the matter?

He even asked me about what, then, guides him towards morality. That I did know the answer of and, to put simply, it has to do with the brain. I could go into that more, if you want me to. After I explained to him about morality, then he tried to call me naive and intelligent at the same time. He was saying I need to do more research into atheist and that I am the not the worst atheist he ever met, and he has met "bad" catholics. But that I owe it to other atheists to read and research and develop my ideas.

All I have to say to that is, of course that is what I am doing. The way he said just erk me the wrong way. That is why I go to these discussions, to get a better idea where I stand on the issue. I go to develop my ideas. If you were to ever go to these meetings, you would see that I ask questions and respond, rather than put my own ideas out there. That is because I am trying to get a better understanding of God, religion, and these people's faith. They are not fundamentalist Christians; therefore, I find them interesting and complicated because they didn't just swallow the Bible, as is. For whatever reason, they reject some parts and accept others. I like to find the rationale behind that. Correction, one of them is fundamentalist Christian; however, she isn't extreme. She is very friendly and I think she never really thought about the Bible in its entirety.

I guess I got a little side track. My question, or point, is, why are seemly intelligent people stop thinking when it comes to god(s)? Even past atheists? Why is it that if something can't be explained yet, do people think that maybe that is proof there is a god, or gods, or that it must be a god, or the gods, that do things we can't explain?

[philosoraptor]

*points to signature*

[Munchkin Goddess]

@ philosoraptor

However, we have a lot of the information on how the world works. The point is to not be lazy and find it. Also, with all the advancements humans have made, why is it so hard to believe that we will find the answer one day? Even if we have no idea how to go about that, at the moment.

I guess it is easier to believe, but how about people who have thought about god, decided to not believe, then go back to believing again? How can they just shut off their brains like that? I am not attacking belief in god, but I just have a problem with people believing in god because they do not know the answer to a particular question.

[pixiedustedd]

However, we have a lot of the information on how the world works. The point is to not be lazy and find it.

Unfortunately I think that's exactly the thing..... some people just don't want to go out and look for answers. They ARE exactly that lazy, and they think it is their right to be because their brains have been raised on centuries of mythology encouraging them to submit, keeping them from straying away from their dogma. They cherish their ignorance because they have been trained to believe that the feeling of being ignorant is the feeling of being faithful. And they are so afraid of being wrong about it that they'll start to get pretty dang agitated and even violent if you start pointing out too many holes in their "logic".



Maybe it's just my own experience but I find that out of everyone i've ever met who claims to be a "good christian" dont know anything about their own religion. i talked to one guy, for example, who said he loved jesus as his lord and savior. and then proceeded to tell me that jesus lived before the roman empire. he also claimed to not know why jesus was murdered, but that he was ressurected and went to heaven. for the record this guy is 26 years old and that his own mother taught his CCD class.

as for the more intelligent believers i've spoken to, they tend to display a complete contempt for themselves and also will act quite contrarily to what they say they believe.

hardly anyone actually goes to church, if they do it is more of a social thing, as if to appear acceptable in the eyes of certain people they wish to draw the attention of. it's not about god.



people who are religious are liars. terrified, lonely, sad little liars. i dont think a single one of them actually BELIEVES what they say. but they so desperately WANT it to be true, that they will not consider any other options. and i think they just get mad at us because we don't try to cling to that, we don't need to, and they're jealous.

[Davin]

I don't think it has anything to with how well educated a person is (I do know that the less educated are statistically more likely to be religious, but anyway). Personally, when I was religious it wasn't that I was lazy and didn't go researching things, it was that I had my Christian goggles on. Once I realized that I shouldn't go into learning something with the perspective of how well the concept can fit into my beliefs and started learning how this new knowledge should change my beliefs, I got better. On a side note, I got even better by dropping the concept of believing things and got into accepting things as the truth as far as we know.

So while it may seem that these people are lazy, it may just be that they are approaching the learning process the wrong way.

[SSY]

Keeps atoms together: Many types of forces, predominantly, ionic and covalent bonding to form molecules, and Van der Waals forces govern the interaction between molecules (vastly over simplified, but there you go), exactly the same forces hold your friend together as hold together every other collection of atoms, there is nothing special about humans.

Keep his atoms from going through a wall: Mainly Pauli repulsion of the outer electrons in atoms (Not electrostatics as many people would have you believe), just like anything else in the world.

This stuff is not hard at all to gain a qualitative understanding of, ascribing basic physical laws like this to god, is beyond lazy.

[curiosityandthecat]

people who are religious are liars. terrified, lonely, sad little liars. i dont think a single one of them actually BELIEVES what they say. but they so desperately WANT it to be true, that they will not consider any other options. and i think they just get mad at us because we don't try to cling to that, we don't need to, and they're jealous.

 

[philosoraptor]

people who are religious are liars. terrified, lonely, sad little liars. i dont think a single one of them actually BELIEVES what they say. but they so desperately WANT it to be true, that they will not consider any other options. and i think they just get mad at us because we don't try to cling to that, we don't need to, and they're jealous.

While I find most religious belief illogical, I don't think it's fair to lump all religions together in such a disparaging way.  I get your gist, I just don't think it's true of ALL religions.  Buddhism comes to mind, probably because it's nontheistic.

[Kylyssa]

I wrote about this topic here: If You Can't Explain the Origin of Life and the Universe Then Why Don't You Just Believe in God?

It just mystifies me.  The thread title "Why does "don't know" must equal "God did it"?" is a great question.  I've never gotten a reasonable explanation, just regurgitations of dogma.

[Sophus]

people who are religious are liars. terrified, lonely, sad little liars. i dont think a single one of them actually BELIEVES what they say. but they so desperately WANT it to be true, that they will not consider any other options. and i think they just get mad at us because we don't try to cling to that, we don't need to, and they're jealous.

While I find most religious belief illogical, I don't think it's fair to lump all religions together in such a disparaging way.  I get your gist, I just don't think it's true of ALL religions.  Buddhism comes to mind, probably because it's nontheistic.

I think among all religions there are the sincerely deluded and those in cognitive dissonance. Probably varies from person to person on how much they've been exposed to. When I was a very young theist I genuinely thought the "arguments" of the God of the Gaps were compelling. Until I began to read and think more.

[philosoraptor]

I find that as an atheist, I often have people of other religions making generalizations about the kind of person I must be, how my thoughts are deluded or I must be totally immoral, etc... because ALL atheists are like that.  But that's not who I am.  So I try not to generalize other religious groups because I don't think it's fair.  I'm sure there are deluded Buddhists and atheists out there, just as there deluded Christians and Jews and Muslims.  But to make blanket statements about any group in particular seems unfair to me, so I try not to do that.

[Munchkin Goddess]

@pixiedustedd
It just scary to think that even people who, as he claimed, once atheists become Christians due to laziness. At least, that is what it seemed like to me in his case.

@Davin
I am starting to think it is both laziness and approach to learning because it is easy to take the information you receive and try to fit it into your beliefs. It is more difficult to go out and look for information to explain away all the things that were once considered miraculous and still believe in God in the end.

@SSY
Thank you very much for explaining it to me. I actually wasn't far off from what I told him. I knew it had something to do with electrons.

@Kylyssa
Even though I feel like I can understand it a bit better after looking at the responses in this thread; however, I do agree that it still mystifying. It can be scarier to not know, but it is more freeing too. One can start looking for the true explanation for a phenomenon rather than making something up to make you feel better.

[i_am_i]

My question, or point, is, why are seemly intelligent people stop thinking when it comes to god(s)? Even past atheists? Why is it that if something can't be explained yet, do people think that maybe that is proof there is a god, or gods, or that it must be a god, or the gods, that do things we can't explain?

There are people who are frightened by the unknown, people who for one reason or another can't bring themselves to think or say, "I don't know,"  and there are people who are exhilarated by the fact that there are a great many things in the universe that we don't know the first thing about.

Could it be genetic? I don't know.

[Munchkin Goddess]

My question, or point, is, why are seemly intelligent people stop thinking when it comes to god(s)? Even past atheists? Why is it that if something can't be explained yet, do people think that maybe that is proof there is a god, or gods, or that it must be a god, or the gods, that do things we can't explain?

There are people who are frightened by the unknown, people who for one reason or another can't bring themselves to think or say, "I don't know,"  and there are people who are exhilarated by the fact that there are a great many things in the universe that we don't know the first thing about.

Could it be genetic? I don't know.

Well, what about Atheists turned Christians? Are they suddenly afraid of the unknown? Or are just tired of not knowing the answers and decided to pretend to know?

[i_am_i]

My question, or point, is, why are seemly intelligent people stop thinking when it comes to god(s)? Even past atheists? Why is it that if something can't be explained yet, do people think that maybe that is proof there is a god, or gods, or that it must be a god, or the gods, that do things we can't explain?

There are people who are frightened by the unknown, people who for one reason or another can't bring themselves to think or say, "I don't know,"  and there are people who are exhilarated by the fact that there are a great many things in the universe that we don't know the first thing about.

Could it be genetic? I don't know.

Well, what about Atheists turned Christians? Are they suddenly afraid of the unknown? Or are just tired of not knowing the answers and decided to pretend to know?

I can't speak for those people. I can only guess, but maybe you're right. Or maybe they just got tired of thinking.