Should Atheists actively protest Christmas?

[Mark L Holland]

To Kelltrill

  In America we are facing a resurgence of Christian zealots, power and authority.  If we were talking of pre Bush the Sons America I might agree with you that Christian evangelicalism and fundamentalism was dying out and it might have died under it’s own corruption sooner or later.  But even Atheists back then had no united front to challenge Christian authority.

  As a result when Bush the Son revitalized the evangelical and fundamentalist movements in America and remade our judicial system into a religious justice system by stacking the supreme, appellate and appeals courts with Christian zealots there was no real apposition to even slow it down let alone any real attempt to check the growth of evangelicalism or fundamentalism.

  Under the best of conditions it would take up to a decade to correct the damage done by Bush the Son, and that would only be possible if Obama held office for two terms, and replaced or removed Bush the Sons appointee’s.  That is highly unlikely to happen, the Republican/Christian war machine is hitting it’s stride and is very effective in their attacks on Obama and the democratic party, and the missteps of Obama and the democratic party are not helping.

  Bush the Son worried me even before he became president, and after his election I wrote letters and sent information to gay/lesbian/transgender and Atheist groups warning of what was to come and what would happen if Bush the Son was reelected.  If Obama loses and a puppet Republican/Christian zealot becomes president he/she will continue building upon the damage that Bush the Son inflicted upon us.  When that finally happens it will be the first time in my life where I might think living in another country might be best.

  The Atheist, Abortion rights, Gay/Lesbian/Transgender and any other group that may be threatened by a resurgence of the evangelical and fundamentalist movement need to combine their resources and mount a united front against it.  To me the evangelical and fundamentalist resurgence is as great a threat to the United States as an outbreak of the Bird flu or any other lethal disease that is allowed to spread unchecked.

  The Christian religion must be challenged, the authority and power of the evangelical and fundamentalist zealots must be eliminated.  Because if it is not the world needs to become very nervous about what damage a Christian zealot controlled and dominated America can do.  We have had a sample of it from Bush the Son but how much more worse can it become.  I truly do not want to find out and would prefer challenging them now while I can then when they add challenging their authority to the patriot act and make it illegal.
 

[Whitney]

By ardently protesting secularised religious activities we will simply be placing more emphasis on their importance as just that: religious activities.

^This is exactly why they are suddenly complaining about Happy Holidays.  It's because there has also been a recent trend of anti-theists launching various 'attacks' on Christian holiday displays.  Thankfully most of those are appropriate, launching lawsuits against religious displays on public property.  However, the Christians who get upset about that (which is really just a small yet loud group of fundamentalists) don't understand that wanting to uphold the constitution is not a "War on Christmas".  People who want to actively protest Christmas as a whole are the ones who are stirring the pot and actually making the Christians even more frantic and more likely to want to remove secularism from the holiday they stole from pagans anyway.  Like religion, there is no sense to it.

Christmas and all other holidays that have theistic origins have been naturally becoming secularized over the years....we don't have to do anything to further that; capitalism is doing the job for us.

[Mark L Holland]

To Whitney

  The Christian wars started with Bush the Son, God knows why but that man was able to energize and boost the Evangelical and Fundamentalist movement like nothing seen since the Apostles created God/Jesus while drinking a keg of wine.  The Evangelical and Fundamentalist resurgence had nothing to do with lawsuits or Michael Newdow or any other Atheist who challenged them in the courts.  Most of the Atheist challenges were in response to the Evangelical and Fundamentalist resurgence.

  Playing nice with the Christian religion is like playing nice with a rattle snake,  sure it may not bite on the first petting or second petting of it but sooner or later the damn thing is going to bit.  Sitting back and saying please Mr. Christian enjoy your religious holidays that we will give lip service to if you only learn how to play nice.  That works almost as well as making a deal with the proverbial devil.

  Not challenging the trinket holidays of the Christian Zealots is not going to lessen their belief that they are Gods chosen who have divine authority and power to dominate all others.  If your concern is you do not want to push the weekend Christian into mobilizing then that is ridicules.  When the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists wish to mobilize the weekend warriors they will do it.  And if the Evangelicals and Fundamentalist wish to mobilize the votes for something they will rally the faithful to their banner.

  If the weekend Christians only have what the zealots give them to go on then they are going to rally with the zealots.  Prop 8 in California proved this easily if black Baptist Christian Americans could be so easily persuaded to persecute and discriminate against another group because there was no one to challenge their authority to do so then not challenging (Christ)mas) or Thanks Giving or any of the other religious holidays is not going to change a damn thing.

  If someone challenged them on the foundations of their beliefs being the teachings of Jesus.  If someone challenged them saying that prop 8 went against Jesus’ teachings, that judging another was a sin, that taking negative actions against others was a sin, that in attempting to do these things they are doing the work of Satan.  If the information of the Zealots was being openly challenged and ridiculed and scorned, then prop 8 would not have passed.

  The weekend Christians are not fanatics or zealots on their own they would not have proposed or tried to pass prop 8, but when all that they have is the zealots for God, Jesus and Country to go on.  And believe that there is no consequences for their actions they are going to go with the zealots.

  When you have an enemy you attack that enemy on all fronts, you do not give a safe haven to that enemy.  You do not allow that enemy respite, you do not allow them the slightest verification for their beliefs you pound them into the ground until there is nothing left to pound.  You cannot give Christians even the slightest belief that you recognize their authority.  You nail them to the cross on every front, until they realize that if they keep the laws, commandments and beliefs of their faith within their faiths they will not know peace.
 

[Whitney]

Mark, being that you really didn't do anything but restate your opinion I have nothing more to say.  We apparently just disagree on how best to deal with fundamentalists.

If they are going to act like idiots no matter what we do I'd rather we not have bad PR from throwing hissy fits over holidays that people can choose not to practice.  Our 'fight' should be saved for real problems; like when they want to put a nativity scene on the state capital lawn or a kid can't go to school without being preached to buy their ultra fundie teacher....not over if Christmas exists.

[Mark L Holland]

To Whitney

  And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.  You believe that the Christian threat may be contained when it becames a threat.  I believe that the Christian Threat when it has reached the point of being a threat it is to late to worry about it's threat.  You will simply be the man that did not speak out when they came for someone else.  And then did not speak out when they came for someone else nor did you speak out with the next group they came for nor the next group.  And when they came for you there was no one who could speak out for you.  Happy life to you.

  Christians have the ability of making Hitler look like a Catholic Chior boy compared to them.  Have happy thoughts your imaginary beliefs just might be real.
 

[Whitney]

And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.

Well, of course you wouldn't care about atheist PR...you're not an atheist.  You can support anti-christian tactics all you want and when public perception of atheists takes a few steps back you aren't affected.

[Mark L Holland]

And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.

Well, of course you wouldn't care about atheist PR...you're not an atheist.  You can support anti-christian tactics all you want and when public perception of atheists takes a few steps back you aren't affected.

To Whitney

  This weekend give me a street corner that I can stand on.  Give me the signs that says bible burning, the bible lies christianity lies, all false bibles burned for free.

  I will stand on that corner burning those bibles or shredding those bibles claiming that Jesus is one of the greatest evils ever to set foot on this earth and clearly tell everyone that I am a theist who dispises jesus and Christianity.  And I will not mention the word Atheist at all.  Unlike you I have no qualms about dying for my cause and belief.  I could give a damn about being shot down in the street by a rabide Christian Dog, because all it would do is prove my point.  It is thursday set my up with a street corner in my area and give me a call.

  I could care less if Atheists have the balls to take on Christianity or not, All I care about is someone giving me the opportunity to challenge their false ass beliefs.  Trust me I will take full responcibility you need not crawl out of your hole to face the day light.  You can hide safelhy from the Christian responce.  
 

[Mark L Holland]

To Whitney

  Gee no Email addess to contact you on so let me help you out.  My address is xxxx.  You all ready have my name.  Let me know what street corner have have set up for me.  You should get a pair of balls they are nice to have if you were a man that is.
 

Edit by Will: I'm not comfortable with people publishing their personal information on this website. While this is the Happy Atheist forum, it's also a part of the internet and there are some very unfriendly people out there who won't care what your beliefs are, just that you posted on an atheist forum.

[Whitney]

To Whitney

  Gee no Email addess to contact you on so let me help you out.  My address is xxxx.  You all ready have my name.  Let me know what street corner have have set up for me.  You should get a pair of balls they are nice to have if you were a man that is.
 

you just got yourself a warning for that.  Not only was it out of line but it was a sexist remark.

Almost everyone here knows I am a female and almost everyone here knows how to contact me.  However, thank you for letting me realize that my posted email is one I don't check anymore (however it still works so I know you didn't look that hard).

[Mark L Holland]

To Witney

  I appolgize for my tone and attitude in my last post you are an Athiest and deserve the respect that that intails.  While I mean everything that I said in that post I do not mean to denegrate you personally.  Give me that street corner and I will back up everything that I have said.  And if you are a man I am sure that you do have a set of balls, sorry for that comment.
 

[Whitney]

thanks for not reading my post.

[Mark L Holland]

To Whitney

  I read your post after posting my apology.  I would not rewrite my post after I already started it.  Now that I do know that you are a women I will take that into consideration the next time that I wish to make an ass of myself.  You have my address and name.  Set me up with a street corner and signs and I will burn their bibles as I have said.  Sorry for the personal insults.
 

[Mark L Holland]

To Whitney

  And please keep in mind that you insulted me first by saying that I was nothing more then an instigator trying to cause trouble between Atheists and Theists and that I would hide in my little hole once the sparks started to fly.

Re: Should Atheists actively protest Christmas?
 by Whitney » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:13 am
Mark L Holland wrote:
 And if you wait until they press your button it may be to late.
Well, of course you wouldn't care about atheist PR...you're not an atheist. You can support anti-christian tactics all you want and when public perception of atheists takes a few steps back you aren't affected.

  As I said I will happily burn their unholy books on any street corner prepared for me.  I do not need the Atheists to intercede for my little war with Christianity, all I need is the support to carry my war to them.  like I said sorry, but I stand by every thing else I said, prepare a corner for me and I will burn their bibles till the sun goes down.
 

[Will]

Mark, if you have a problem with a moderator or even the administrator, please feel free to PM someone on the staff about it. If you look under the username of some of the members, it provides our staff title, in case you're wondering who's on the staff.

[Whitney]

like I said sorry, but I stand by every thing else I said, prepare a corner for me and I will burn their bibles till the sun goes down.
 

my position is there is no reason to do that....are you even reading what I post? (Rhetorical question)

Just stop replying on this topic till you've calmed down.