Christ On the Cross

[G-Roll]

If God/Jesus had pealed himself off of the cross in front of hundreds of witness’s and Centurions healed himself and dropped a few of the Centurions in their tracks, this would probably have worked far better then the way it was done.

well that would require him to actually be the son of god or god made flesh.

[Mark L Holland]

LOL yep it would but since he was not the son of god, he died the death of a criminal.

[twmac1]

Jesus Christ on the cross is precious to His people, I relize it means nothing to so many, and I know that a person( like myself) can not change your mind or your heart. I do know that when a person is convicted of  sin in their life by the Holy Spirit , it is a conviction you can not get off your mind until it is dealt with. The word of God says that all have sinned, There is no one righteous, not even one and the penalty for that sin is death,but while we were still sinners Christ died for us, and the gift of God is eternal life. We confess our sins, ask for forgiveness, since we have been rebels against a holy God.  justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
  As I said before this means nothing to many, you read and listen but do not understand as it is written My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me( John 10:27)
Are you convicted of sin in your life? if so the only way of peace and salvation is through the cross of Jesus Christ.

[Mark L Holland]

To twmac1

  I recognize Jesus as being a man of God, teacher of God, and Guided of God.  I consider his public teachings before the Jews in public to be divine in nature.  But God he is not, will not be and cannot be.  I have an Atheist in another group or may be in this group who’s signature says a quote from Gandhi.  It goes something like this.  (I like your Christ, I just done care for your Christians).

  This is how I am, I like and respect Jesus the man and his public teachings.  I simply despise those Christians who claim to worship him with their lips, but reject him with their actions.
 

[twmac1]

Mark,
    Amen to that last statement, I think the right word would be hypocrite. Being christian I do take the the Bible as the word of God ( I know that is another discussion ) but your statement of Jesus not being God is contradictive to the bible in John 10:30 Jesus said that He and the Father are one ( this is just one example), but i also admit that the doctrine of the trinity is very difficult to comprehend even for one who pursues an answer, I have found that sometimes I have to just bow my head and say Lord thou knowest.
      Thanks again for reminding me that before the world christians have to walk our talk or we destroy our testimonies before unbelievers.

[Mark L Holland]

To twmac1

  The Bible Lies, it is contradictory and inconsistent.  The Bible has no value other then for a emergency supply of toilet paper or as kindling for starting a fire.  The only thing that the bible contains that is worth anything at all is the public teachings of Jesus before the Jews.  Everything thing else contained in the bible has as much value as a pile of steaming pile of male bovine solid waste material in the middle of the field.

  While I respect Jesus and his public teachings I despise Christianity.  Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus the man nor do they have anything to do with his public teachings.

[Kylyssa]

But how was it really a sacrifice for God to take on human flesh and then let it be tortured to death?  God got better.  God always knew that he wouldn't actually die so how is his death a sacrifice?  It's like making a clone, transferring your intelligence into that clone then killing the clone but then repairing it so it didn't actually die.  You made yourself experience how horrible life can be, but not really sacrificing anything.

Is it that God was ignorant of how horrid life could be but the suffering of his flesh as Jesus made him realize what a prick he'd been making humans to suffer so?  Jesus suffered on the cross (if he existed, etc.) but millions have suffered worse.  There are those who suffered a lifetime then died in agony, there are those who took a week to die impaled on the short stake, and, if the Bible were real, there would be those who were tortured even worse, for centuries in Hell before Jesus was even born.

[LoneMateria]

Mark,
    Amen to that last statement, I think the right word would be hypocrite. Being christian I do take the the Bible as the word of God ( I know that is another discussion ) but your statement of Jesus not being God is contradictive to the bible in John 10:30 Jesus said that He and the Father are one ( this is just one example), but i also admit that the doctrine of the trinity is very difficult to comprehend even for one who pursues an answer, I have found that sometimes I have to just bow my head and say Lord thou knowest.
      Thanks again for reminding me that before the world christians have to walk our talk or we destroy our testimonies before unbelievers.

How much of the bible do you ignore?

[Mark L Holland]

To LoneMateria

  The problem is they do not ignore enough of the bible.  If Christianity ignored everything in the bible except for the public teachings of Jesus before the Jews they would probably be as good of a religion as Buddhists have.  Since the teachings of Buddha and Jesus are very similar to each other.  Christianity goes down the drain though because they actually claim the teachings of the Old Testament and Apostles are actually superior to the public teachings of their Jesus.
 

[Ihateusernames]

I understand completely disregarding the bible, but I really don't understand saying "I'll take what I like and disregard the rest."

Just out of curiosity, why the heck would you believe the public teachings of Christ, but nothing else the writers documented? because you like them? I can do that to anything, watch, (pretending to be a christian) I'll take what I like out of what you say, and disregard the rest.

Mark L Holland,
"There is...great redeeming of mankind though...Jesus...being resurrected."

OMG your a christian! wow! and all I had to do was disregard the words I didn't like (aka: your actual points) and keep the words you like (aka un-honest word mining.)

I personally say take it all and try to harmonize it, or disregard it all as just other people talking.  but whatever.

[Mark L Holland]

To Ihateusernames

  The bible cannot be harmonized, as for rejecting the bible as a whole while accepting the public teachings of Jesus.  When someone says something that makes sense then it makes sense.  The public teachings of Jesus like Buddha and Gandhi, make sense.  They stress personal responsibility and personal growth.  Bettering oneself.  They are all good teachings and are good ways to live ones life.

  The Bible, Torah and Koran for the most part are focused first and foremost upon how to do unto others before they themselves can do the same unto you.  This type of teachings suck.
 

[Ihateusernames]

To Ihateusernames

  The bible cannot be harmonized, as for rejecting the bible as a whole while accepting the public teachings of Jesus.  When someone says something that makes sense then it makes sense.  The public teachings of Jesus like Buddha and Gandhi, make sense.  They stress personal responsibility and personal growth.  Bettering oneself.  They are all good teachings and are good ways to live ones life.

  The Bible, Torah and Koran for the most part are focused first and foremost upon how to do unto others before they themselves can do the same unto you.  This type of teachings suck.
 

Ok, then, because I don't really want to put the effort into writing a reply (I'm a lazy christmas-eve celebrating person, what can I say) I'll stick with your philosophy.

"There is...great redeeming of mankind though...Jesus...being resurrected."  Wow, how appropriate for you to say that during this season (kinda odd you feel this way on a atheist forums tho, but meh whatever tickles your pickle!)

[Mark L Holland]

To Ihateusernames

  I am not sure why you keep referencing the resurrection.  I do not believe that there was a resurrection, all of the stories contradict themselves and I consider them worthless.  I do not believe that Jesus was a supernatural being I do not believe in the so called miracles performed.  He was a teacher and I believe he was guided in those beliefs but he was a man.  Salvation is not through Jesus.  Every man women and child ever born, being born or ever will be born with a soul has salvation.
 

[Ihateusernames]

To Ihateusernames

  I am not sure why you keep referencing the resurrection.  I do not believe that there was a resurrection, all of the stories contradict themselves and I consider them worthless.  I do not believe that Jesus was a supernatural being I do not believe in the so called miracles performed.  He was a teacher and I believe he was guided in those beliefs but he was a man.  Salvation is not through Jesus.  Every man women and child ever born, being born or ever will be born with a soul has salvation.
 

I commend you on missing the satirical point of my posts so absolutely and stupendously. : )

Congratulations!

[LoneMateria]

Okay I asked the question (I didn't know if the person would come back or not who knows s/he may be back after x-mas) just to say essentially that no one today follows the bible to the letter.  Jesus said that everyone was to follow the laws of the OT with a few new ones.  No one follows all 613 laws of the OT.  The user was gonna cherry pick from the bible and so was I.

Oh and Mark I don't agree Jesus was a good teacher since after all he told everyone how hard they needed to beat their slaves.  He may have said one or two good things but some of the crap he said was as absurd as the bible itself.