More Child abuse from Nigeria

[Reginus]

You said this:

Jk, anyway, I'm a believer in the power-under approach, as opposed to the power-over approach. In my opinion, the best thing we can do is provide a home and therapy for the victims, and poverty-lifting education for those in the area. Demonifying the pastors and trying to put them in prison, etc. will not solve the problem, but will only further brew hatred.

You've been getting away with this for a long time. I'm going to press you. Defend your statements. Do it now or fuck off.

Thank you SSY, you explained (that part of) my opinion a lot better than even I could have.

First, LoneM specifically asked what people on this forum (not Nigerian judges, etc) can do. I think it would be very possible to set up some sort of charity that would help the victims, which in my opinion would be more far more effective of a solution than running protests, or something of that sort. Just look at how poorly the anti-Iraq War protests worked.

Secondly, it is of my opinion that every person, including these pastors has unsurpassable worth. I think that things tend to play out much better if you are in this mind-set instead of the "justice" mindset. So, in application to this scenario, I think the best thing that the Nigerian authorities could do would to detain the offending pastors, tell them that if they hurt another child they will be put in jail (not as a revenge punishment, but as a precaution to protect the children). Even more importantly, these pastors need a friend or two to talk things out with, who hopefully can lead them away from the exorcism mindset. In my opinion, the best thing to do would be to stay in the mindset of love for every person, thinking "how can we demonstrate that both the children and the pastors have unsurpassable worth?" and not fall into the dangerous mind set of justice. Just look at what this has done to Jews and Palestinians. Both sides think "it's only fair that we get the land; only just that the other side is punished for their crimes". On the other hand, let's look to the African American Civil Rights movement. The AAs had every reason to be angry, and yet somehow they managed to show unconditional love to the white people. If I remember correctly, MLK once said that no man who would not march in an attempt to free the whites of their hatred of blacks, should not march at all.

The just and fair thing to do would be to execute these pastors for their crimes. I think the better thing to do would be to go above and beyond this.

BTW AIP, thank you for your patience. Sorry I couldn't respond earlier, but I had a lot of homework over the weekend.

[Ninteen45]

I wish I would find a lamp, a magical one, with a Genie inside, infact I want it to be the genie from the disney movie Aladdin, there is nothing like a singing, all powerful, immortal, cosmic being that turns out to be Robin Williams. I'd ask for a wish, I would wish to be an all powerful genie, then I would wish for my freedom and his. Then I would use my cosmic power to just wipe religion off the face of the planet and then I'd go all around the world uprooting the idiots who run these countries and allow this sort of thing to happen and then i'd update the entire world's infrastructure to the 21st century then I would create a golden bible  and it would pretty much tell people not to believe in invisible men who never show themselves but are all powerful and created the universe just because they told you so and then I would put P.S, i'm just an ordinary guy  who by some freak accident got cosmic powers and that i'm no better than any other person.

Fuck, you just spoiled this seasons family guy.

[Ultima22689]

I wish I would find a lamp, a magical one, with a Genie inside, infact I want it to be the genie from the disney movie Aladdin, there is nothing like a singing, all powerful, immortal, cosmic being that turns out to be Robin Williams. I'd ask for a wish, I would wish to be an all powerful genie, then I would wish for my freedom and his. Then I would use my cosmic power to just wipe religion off the face of the planet and then I'd go all around the world uprooting the idiots who run these countries and allow this sort of thing to happen and then i'd update the entire world's infrastructure to the 21st century then I would create a golden bible  and it would pretty much tell people not to believe in invisible men who never show themselves but are all powerful and created the universe just because they told you so and then I would put P.S, i'm just an ordinary guy  who by some freak accident got cosmic powers and that i'm no better than any other person.

Fuck, you just spoiled this seasons family guy.

! Aww, damn it! I sure did didn't I?  

You know, even though Family Guy has some incredibly stupid humor it's very subtle but there is a deep intellectual feel to it as well if you analyze the episodes. Seth Macfarlane is pretty good at what he does although his shows are somewhat hit and miss like American Dad although I have to admit American Dad has become more like a bottle of wine as it has gotten better as time has passed.

[Ninteen45]

...

Sir, Are you drunk?

All Family guy, Simpsons and South park (More blatently) does is makes a bunch of jokes while having the moral or question of the episode (Usually the plot)

Just like the kid's shows.

[zenstyle]

You know this is my first post and I don't know any of you people..

But I have to just say I'm very disappointed in you guys...

In only 2 pages you guys go right off topic talking about fricking Simpsons and Family Guy..

What the hell is wrong with you people?

This is what is wrong... Complacency and Indifference...  oh and thinking this discussion has room for jokes...

I just want to know how much money is it going to cost to find the guy that melted that 9 year olds eyes... he should suffer that fate.

I want Nigeria not to have 2 churches for every school... I want to know why the hell Sarah Palin is being blessed publically by someone who made his name calling other people Witches...

I just want some justice...  and I want an actual comprehensive idea about what can be done about it...

Anything less than the Nigerian government dismantling these child killing churches, even if they are indirectly responsible...


Sorry if I offended... I don't really care, I just want the concept of what was done to become extinct...

We sure as hell know the christians aren't going to take responsibility for creating a church and then abandoning it so that
their "disciples" can interpret bullcrap stories as they wish...  Such as ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live")....

In this case blaming the Devil is just a form of denial and subverting responsibility...


http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/
10:20:28 PM Pedram: There she is my friends, ex-Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin at the 7:00 mark receiving a blessing, to keep her safe from WITCHES, from a man who made his name by chasing them in Africa. In the 21st century THIS was still considered acceptable by millions of American voters.





PS. If it's the difference between nuking that entire area and children being tortured and left to die a slow death,
just put me down for former... those people do not deserve to occupy our planet... they are simply human cancer.

Also for the women, they cut off their clitoris with a razor blade... This is another ploy to make money from pain and superstition.

[Whitney]

But I have to just say I'm very disappointed in you guys...

PS. If it's the difference between nuking that entire area and children being tortured and left to die a slow death,
just put me down for former... those people do not deserve to occupy our planet... they are simply human cancer.

Well, then I think we have mutual feelings towards each other.  Anyone who would think nuking an entire area of people is a good idea and then says what I highlighted in bold cannot claim to be taking the moral high road.


Everyone else, please stay on topic...I can't even figure out how family guy relates to this.

[zenstyle]

Of course I'm not serious about a nuke, irradiating any part of our planet on purpose is just as stupid as what's going on. I simply mentioned it because it was already brought up as a suggestion, but don't kid yourself you'd rather have your whole village napalmed then have half the kids
eyes melted out by acid and then left to die spitting up blood on a blanket for a month... Personally I'd want to be put out of my misery...

Provided nothing can be done to end the suffering... It actually is more humane to put those kids down by lethal injection...

If you can't see that then you have some idealistic religious views clouding your "Atheism", allowing people to suffer endlessly, is not Atheist.

If nothing can be done, no one can be fed, no child can be saved, no witch hunting churches shut down...

The two are not mutually exclusive, you put down an animal when there's nothing you can do for them...

What else is there? We help "free" them like we helped "free" Iraq?... First day the whole country was bombed killing over 150,000 people.

Anyway my point was in my message... Not in my P.S... I was spinning someone elses words, and apparently they were spun back on me..

[Whitney]

If you can't see that then you have some idealistic religious views clouding your "Atheism", allowing people to suffer endlessly, is not Atheist.

I never said anything about wanting people to suffer; I just don't think non action or total destruction are the only options.

Also, you don't seem to know what an atheist is...it's just someone who doesn't believe in a god.  Someone could have horrible morals and still be an atheist (just as they could have horrible morals and still be a theist).

[zenstyle]

You got me there, is there a word for a non douche bag atheist against human and animal suffering?

[Whitney]

You got me there, is there a word for a non douche bag atheist against human and animal suffering?

Yes, and the same word would apply to theists....Humanist; well, I guess Eco-Humanist (or two words, Humanist and Environmentalist) if you include animals.

[LoneMateria]

You are being very nice Whitney.  From my view zenstyle looks like s/he might be a troll.

I have an idea (and yes i'm making a joke here ... well half of one) we can send all the Young Earth Creationists / Fundamentalist Christians / Evangelical Christians and tell them this is what happens when religion runs everything.  This is America's future if we don't deal with the serious problem of religion.  These incidents aren't just occurring in another country they are happening here in America.  A few months ago I heard of a story where two parents killed their infant child by beating it in the head with a hammer because they thought it was possessed by demons.

This article and these incidents aren't on the fringe of our society.  This is what happens when groups Fundamentalists/Evangelical Christians will get their way and go unchecked.  These groups are looking to retard education, and when you stick overwhelming superstition with the uneducated you get this crap.  We are getting to look into the future of our society if religion and superstition aren't killed off.  

Although i'm not sure what to do I am with Whitney that there are more options then Nuking them and sitting back and watching.  We need to look at the cause of this crap ... where does this shit originate from ... oh an American Church ... well thats fucking great.  Honestly, as bad as this sounds, we should work on cleaning house before we worry about other countries.  I know that sounds very republican of me, but we cant fix their problems until we fix ours (especially when their problems come from us).

[curiosityandthecat]

You got me there, is there a word for a non douche bag atheist against human and animal suffering?

Antidouchewholovespeopleandanimalsequallyandhasnogodbeliefer?

[zenstyle]

I googled for information about a specific case and then was reading some good information and then it turned into nukes, simpsons and family guy. I took offense to that, my bad. My beef is not with the kids it's with their parents. But in this case you do anything to the parents and the kids will die anyway...  I don't know if the hammer story is as bad, but it's also rather disgusting. That baby new nothing, At 9 years old the world looks almost comprehensible. There's a high level of awareness of what is going on and what is happening to them.

Yet they are defenseless..  they are subject to the whims of jackals...

If there is another site/place where people are doing something more about it there, I'll gladly take my shit and go..  just point the way..

I'm not here to talk about it, I wanna do something... But I work 90 hours a week, how do people like us make a difference?

Do we use our money? Where do we send it? One of those churches? Bah..  This really isn't a discussion about tv shows or MWA's...

If it is you don't have to worry about me sticking around...

[Whitney]

I'm not here to talk about it, I wanna do something... But I work 90 hours a week, how do people like us make a difference?

HAF isn't set up as a nonprofit and therefore can't take in money for causes.  There might be some secular organization that is doing something for this particular issue but I am not aware of it.  I agree with LoneMateria in that I'd prefer to clean up at home before we start trying to take care of problems elsewhere.  I do volunteer locally with groups that help to spread reason, freethought etc and don't have the time to work on problems elsewhere in the world even if I thought they took priority over local concerns.

I think the serious discussion part of this dwindled away quickly simply because there isn't much that can be done about it and that many of us are already otherwise involved with other activities.

[zenstyle]

That is the very definition of indifference...
 - absence of compulsion to or toward one thing or another...

Please delete my account....