More Child abuse from Nigeria

[Whitney]

That is the very definition of indifference...
 - absence of compulsion to or toward one thing or another...

Please delete my account....

I don't delete accounts....sorry.

[zenstyle]

ok I limited my account, hopefully, someone will have some free time for the kids there..
I think a troubled youth in a dysfunctional home is still paradise compared to what's happening to those nigerians...
So I believe no, domestic is lower priority... Because that just happened, and now it's about to be forgotten...

[Renegnicat]

Look, it's important to realize that you can't help anyone else but yourself. You can give someone money, you can give someone a home, you can even help educate them. All those things can be done through the political process.

But as much as you can do for someone materially, you can't solve anyone's problems. Would you propose the U.S. Swoop in, enfoce civil law, take over all responsibilities of keeping the children safe, etc,etc? The United States is not a national babysitting service. And even if it tried to be, it would be a disaster. This is what the U.S. tried to be in the middle east. It tried to be the world's policewoman, and the result was disastrous. Not only is the U.S. Worn out, overextended, and crumbling under the weight of it's own beauracracy, but the world hasn't thanked the U.S. for it's attempts. The contrary, more people hate america than ever before.

And it boils down to this: No matter how much you want to help someone, how much you want someone to better themselves, you can't do it for them. Only they can. You can babysit them, sure. You can hand everything they need on a silver platter, but then you yourself would grow resentful and overburdened, and they still wouldn't take any new opportunities. They would simply take what was given to them and demand more. And if you stopped giving it to them, stopped providing for their welfare, they would simply lapse back into their old ways, never really having been eradicated.

You can't help others. They can only help themselves. And that will only happen when they want to.

[Whitney]

ok I limited my account

I don't know what that means but ok.

, hopefully, someone will have some free time for the kids there..

there?

I think a troubled youth in a dysfunctional home is still paradise compared to what's happening to those nigerians...

Yes, but that still doesn't mean we should go around trying to force our ideals on other people and fix their problems; esp before we have worked out major issues of our own.

So I believe no, domestic is lower priority...

This is the kind of mindset that makes the USA stick their nose in everyone else's business even when it is not wanted.

Because that just happened, and now it's about to be forgotten...

I don't know what that means but ok.

[zenstyle]

I've never seen anyone lose the context of a discussion so fast... but no I don't see it as meddling...

Creating a church and then leaving it to its own devices to be interpreted savagely and used for evil against children...

That is the highest form of meddling... That is not "missionary" work...
and it needs to be reversed and in no way should we go messing with other cultures in the first God damn place....

This is what caused the bible to be left to interpretation by savage and poverty stricken psychopaths..

[Whitney]

I've never seen anyone lose the context of a discussion so fast

If you want to act like an ass you'll be saying you've never seen anyone get banned so fast.  It's not my fault that you don't write in complete sentences.

d in no way should we go messing with other cultures in the first God damn place....

So,now you don't want to do anything to change what is going on there? It would require messing with other cultures.

[LoneMateria]

Creating a church and then leaving it to its own devices to be interpreted savagely and used for evil against children...

Again this problem stems from us.  We need to clean house and fix these problems in our society before, "meddling" in other societies.  The main problem here is the ignorance of the Christians who do this.  They think Jesus makes them better people so giving Jesus to poor countries is going to make them better.  Jesus hasn't made Christians better people science has and they won't accept it.  That is why Nigeria is such a disaster.

Like Whitney said what can we do ... "meddle" some more?  Last time Americans started meddling over there it didn't work out so well.  I have no doubt that the church that went over there had good intentions and they were not expecting this type of child abuse.  What makes you think going over there with good intentions and changing their system will have a positive effect?  In order for things to change higher education needs to be brought into play which will take some time.  Kids need to be encouraged to be educated (something the uneducated tend not to value).  And there is no guarantee it will fix anything.

We can't fix everyones problems they need to fix it themselves.  We need to fix our own problems first or they will spread.  Our religious problem is spreading to other countries and look what happens.  I feel bad for those kids and what is happening to them however there seems to be little we can do right now.

[zenstyle]

Trust me I believe in that whole heartedly, my biggest beef isn't that we don't go down there or that Christians did..

It's simply two things...
  Just like Star Trek has a Prime Directive avoiding contaminating other cultures with alien ideals..  We should too, This is why..

  Over there Churches outnumber Schools 2 to 1, that should be the other way around, I agree with you that is the underlying root cause..

Science improved America, agreed... Will it help them? Couldn't it also enable them to a achieve new level of violence?

Science breeds Technology, and almost every technology has been stretched to serve as an instrument of war at some point...

People don't stop to think that maybe the same GPS satellite navigating their cars used to navigate cruise missiles to depopulate areas...

Also keep in mind that the Prime Directive (yes I know it doesn't exist) does not negate aid... If someone is in need of aid you can help without ruining their culture... at least that's what I believe...  as long as they request or accept it such aid...

Most of those kids are being tortured and killed because their parents simply cannot feed them... Giving them food is not "meddling"..

Erecting a diseased religious temple is...

[LoneMateria]

Most of those kids are being tortured and killed because their parents simply cannot feed them... Giving them food is not "meddling"..

Erecting a diseased religious temple is...

Like Renegnicat pointed out tihs is a lose lose situation.  If we don't give them food then we are monsters for not helping.  If we do give them food (no matter how much) it isn't enough and we are monsters for starving them.  I'm going to point out from that StarTrek directive that you can't have it both ways.  You helping someone is as much interfering as giving them guns.  You can't have the directive both ways.  You can't say don't interfere with something you don't like but wholeheartedly interfere when its something you like.  You can't predict the results of your tampering.

The Christians gesture to spread the love of Jesus ends with acid being poured down the throats of children quite literally.  You cannot predict the outcome of your influence so don't put yourself in any position to influence.

[Renegnicat]

What the HELL is this, Ignore Renegnicat day?  

[zenstyle]

I can't believe I'm arguing this but, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

Aid is always given when necessary, unless it violates the prime directive, in this case, like arming an opposing side of a faction...

For example, in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Redemption," when the Klingon Empire experienced a brief civil war, and Captain Picard refused Chancellor Gowron's request of aid, even though he was the legitimate ruler of the Empire, and even though the Romulans were suspected of supplying weapons to the opposing side, as a planetary civil war was deemed an internal conflict.

Feeding the hungry has it's own philosophies I'm sure, such as teach a man to fish...

Beyond that I don't agree with this statement below, Indifference is just as much of a violation as renegade vigilantism..

I just think they should get NON RELIGIOUS AID, is that so much to ask?

> You cannot predict the outcome of your influence so don't put yourself in any position to influence.

[Whitney]

What the HELL is this, Ignore Renegnicat day?  

Like Renegnicat pointed out tihs is a lose lose situation.

[Reginus]

What the HELL is this, Ignore Renegnicat day?  

Hmm, do you think it's possible to help someone help themselves?

[Renegnicat]

What the HELL is this, Ignore Renegnicat day?  :eek2:

My bad.  

[zenstyle]

Exactly, that's what I was getting at when I mentioned "Teach a man to fish..."

In their case it would probably be farming, like starting a farm with utility donations such as seed & fertilizer,
and if they get it going, maybe donate a cow or something...

With the stipulation that it doesn't get sacrificed in the name of some invisible deity of course..

It's kinda like giving a drunk bum a sandwich, rather than a $20, since he will most likely just buy more alcohol...

This is called using your head... we're all capable of it...