What's on your mind today?

[No one]

Confidence is one thing, puffing out your chest to force others to take notice, is entirely different.

When the game comes to its end, the king and the pawn go in the same box

[Asmodean]

When the game comes to its end, the king and the pawn go in the same box

They don't have to.



Vs.

[No one]

Death, is the box.

The pharroh, just like the salve, is dead.

[Asmodean]

And yet I will be the equal of Albert Einstein in death no more than I am in life.

He continues to be worth more to the humanity than I am, and my contribution of value will all but cease within a few decades from my death.

[No one]

And one day, humanity, and all its importance fade away, as if they never were.

[Asmodean]

So what?

The scope of relevance is limited, but why would you look beyond said limits in any given case? If your legacy is important to you in life or to someone else after your death, what does it matter that you will no longer have the capacity to care when dead? You can secure a shinier box than the next "dirty peasant" - or be secured it for - when it indeed is relevant.

We've been back and forth on this issue for a while, so I have to ask; could you make a case for your position? What is the scope of your model? How does it, in your opinion, supersede or augment my own? Otherwise, I suspect we may end up in a bit of a loop of claims, receipts to the contrary, changing the scope, new receipts to the contrary, etc.

[billy rubin]

And yet I will be the equal of Albert Einstein in death no more than I am in life.

He continues to be worth more to the humanity than I am, and my contribution of value will all but cease within a few decades from my death.

what did albrrt einstein contribute to humanity?

[Asmodean]

His contribution was insight.

An understanding of the workings of the universe that enable such things as GPS, space ship navigation and even a few aspects of radiotherapy, not to mention creating a more precise model of the universe with its corresponding fields of inquiry. That may not be immediately practical, but then it does not have to be; Michelangelo's frescoes in the Sistine Chapel are hardly useful for keeping the rain out, and yet they alone make his "box" far shinier than that of Keith, the turnip farmer. It does not mean that Keith was not important in his own way, but... He was one of many. Michelangelo was... Michelangelo.

Now, I personally happen to be far closer to good old Keith in that regard. I have no illusions nor ambitions of a literal or metaphorical pyramid to mark my tomb for millennia - coversely, I have no illusions that that somehow means that there can be no tomb grander (or, for that matter, lesser) than mine, or no legacy more (or less) important and lasting.

[Tank]

And yet I will be the equal of Albert Einstein in death no more than I am in life.

He continues to be worth more to the humanity than I am, and my contribution of value will all but cease within a few decades from my death.

what did albrrt einstein contribute to humanity?

If you use a satnav it relies on the ideas of Einstein.

[Asmodean]

That's not to say that it would never have materialised without him - perhaps it would have the very next day. Or perhaps the next decade. Then, some other name could have been what Einstein's is.

[billy rubin]

well i dunno. einstein also provided the theory behind nuclear weapons. nobel gave us high explosives, and then the nobel peace prize.

nothing is unmixed, i guess, is what im thinking. and local scale and immediacy is more important to me than gandeur and big pictures. i lived for years without GPS, and this year marks 47 years since i was first involved in geonav marine satellite location systems.

at the time we got two-foot accuracy using ancient SHORAN tube radios, while geonav was good for 1000 feet.

but i think the main observaton i have is that i dont know what "value" is. were einsteins contributions valuable? were they more important to humanity than those of jacob lister, who invented listerine mouthwash?

history books describe value in terms of governments, wars, successions, and politics. but john deere invented the moldboard plough, which has served humanity better than any number of royal family feuds.

i asked an old hudson motors mechanic once what he thought was the most significant technological achievement of his lifetime. maybe ive mentioned it already.

has answer was : paper towels.

[Asmodean]

well i dunno. einstein also provided the theory behind nuclear weapons. nobel gave us high explosives, and then the nobel peace prize.

Well, if we are to stay true to the scope of this conversation, great and important needs not equal good. Your grand tomb may well be made of bones - poor Keith would be lucky to have a head stone a couple of decades past his expiration date.

but i think the main observaton i have is that i dont know what "value" is. were einsteins contributions valuable? were they more important to humanity than those of jacob lister, who invented listerine mouthwash?

I'd say value is the sum of a person's contributions (for good or ill) to whatever unit larger than that person suits your measuring needs. In this discussion, humanity does the trick. It could be society or family or just oneself. Measuring value is about the impact and/or magnitude of said contributions on the same scale. Broadly, you could ask, "how and to what degree did Keith's life affect the nation of France?" (Keith be French turnip farmer )

history books describe value in terms of governments, wars, successions, and politics. but john deere invented the moldboard plough, which has served humanity better than any number of royal family feuds.

Yes. You invent a plough and make someone's job easier and more productive. You invent a nuke and make a hundred thousand lives end. Those things can be measured against each other in staying power, magnitude and other such aspects to determine value.

[The Magic Pudding.]

And one day, humanity, and all its importance fade away, as if they never were.

If only we could destroy everything everywhere always.

[Asmodean]

Perhaps on a long enough timescale, that's what we do every single day by converting more ordered forms of energy into less ordered ones in a fight against entropy.

I do like the idea of perpetual destruction though. The Asmo hereby claims Him that for a Godly power.

[billy rubin]

theres a theory coming up that the universe is cyclic, and the big black holes survive the big bang from previous universes.

more to come