It's like cancer

[Ben-AG]

The problem lies in that God is not concerned with your words...He knows your heart and if repentance is not truly there then you are not truly "sorry."  This doesn't go to say that there are people who actually feel the presence of God before they die and repent in that moment..God forgives you nonetheless.  A testimony to His love and patience.

How does this synch with God knowing everything at all times and having a plan for everything?

How does it not?

[PipeBox]

The problem lies in that God is not concerned with your words...He knows your heart and if repentance is not truly there then you are not truly "sorry."  This doesn't go to say that there are people who actually feel the presence of God before they die and repent in that moment..God forgives you nonetheless.

Are you saying they wouldn't be truly sorry and afraid when they were about to die?  I mean, if they're already praying they either believe or want to believe, and no matter how callous they are, that surely means they will be feeling very, very sorry.  If they know they're dying, they won't waste their last chance to "get right".  And since I hardly think you can argue that anyone that prays and really means it, just because they don't want to end up in hell, ends up going there anyway, I think the repent-on-your-deathbed plan is pretty safe.  Even if you plan it, you are most certainly going to be sorry for everything including the plan when you get there.  This is a concept Titan didn't quite grasp.  You can plan to sin and still be truly sorry after word.

[Jolly Sapper]

The problem lies in that God is not concerned with your words...He knows your heart and if repentance is not truly there then you are not truly "sorry."  This doesn't go to say that there are people who actually feel the presence of God before they die and repent in that moment..God forgives you nonetheless.  A testimony to His love and patience.

How does this synch with God knowing everything at all times and having a plan for everything?

How does it not?

Okay, so I've heard these two assumptions about the Christian god:
1) God knows everything.
2) God has a plan for everything

I've also heard that God is good and wants us to make the right choices on our own so that they choice is ours and not forced/influenced by somebody else.  I guess this is an attempt to figure out if a person is a truly hard core believer just  faking it for Jesus.  

Now if there is a plan, and its God's plan, then nothing I do is a mistake.  If I'm living the life of a saint, its not really me that is doing it, because its all part of the plan.  If I'm living the life of a sinner, its not really me, as its all part of the plan.  

I may be an unapologetic mass murderer who on my deathbed decides to show remorse, but would that be me of my own volition deciding that what I had done was wrong, or would it all just be part of god's plan?

[Loukritia]

It's really shocking. This man or woman must be really suffering from religion. Indeed, religion is a disease.

[Pancake]

I'd agree that it's not the mind of your average atheist but I do remember going through that myself.  And I agree... the fear spread by religion IS like a cancer.  Those of us who are former believers (or former TRYING to believe-ers) were probably brainwashed at an early age that the bible is true, god is real and that hell is real.

I was brainwashed into the whole God story when I was a kid. Then I looked at some points online on how God isn't real, I thought about them, checked them, and I realized that God doesn't exist.
My parents still think "You just read something off the internet and it converted you".

[JillSwift]

I was brainwashed into the whole God story when I was a kid. Then I looked at some points online on how God isn't real, I thought about them, checked them, and I realized that God doesn't exist.
My parents still think "You just read something off the internet and it converted you".

Truly, that is rich.

"You just were told something by your parents and it converted you."
"You just read something in a book and it converted you."

It's like no one spends a moment to see if their little dismissive statement cuts both ways or not.

[liveyoungdiefast]

The first time I ever met my girlfriend, she had godisimaginary.com written on something she was carrying with her. I was more of an agnostic at the time but I still remember thinking "That's hot".

 We've been together almost a year now

[curiosityandthecat]

The first time I ever met my girlfriend, she had godisimaginary.com written on something she was carrying with her. I was more of an agnostic at the time but I still remember thinking "That's hot".

 We've been together almost a year now

[Matrix]

I keep getting called a "cvor" by a religious nut. And she keeps saying I suffer from the mental, spiritual and intellectual schizophrenia that plagues all atheists. How does one respond to that?

[curiosityandthecat]

I keep getting called a "cvor" by a religious nut. And she keeps saying I suffer from the mental, spiritual and intellectual schizophrenia that plagues all atheists. How does one respond to that?

[Dristann's Girl]

As a Christian, I believe it is important to make others aware of the dangers of not acepting God. However, I agree with some of the others here in that walking around saying things like "You're going to Hell" is stupid, cruel, not the way to go about things. As Christians, we are supposed to portray a loving and forgiving message. Talking like this makes us sound like we're better than athesits or other unsaved, which we're not. We may be saved, but that's about the free gift God has given us; we outselves are actually no better than they. Trying to scare people into believing something may actually work for some, but for most, I do not think this is the best tactic.

[LoneMateria]

Dristaan would a loving god condemn countless billions to hell for not being born in a Christian environment? out of the seven and a half billion people in this world only about 2 billion are Christians, most people are never born into the Christian environment and literally live their whole lives without knowing much about Christianity its a belief system.  Many people try to live good lives, do they deserve hell for the lack in a belief?  If a god condemns people to hell for something as benign as a personal belief then is he really worth our worship?  Is he good?  No, he is a power craving control freak neither deserving of our praise nor our respect.

By believing everyone who isn't in the buddy club deserves to be tortured forever is just as asinine and barbaric as the bronze aged people in the bible.  It doesn't matter that the belief is personal and you don't share it and condemn others for not having it.  That way of thinking belongs in the past.  The problem is most people have compartmentalized that particular belief so they do not question it.  I think hell should be questioned.  What finite crime deserves infinite punishment?  Not only infinite punishment but infinite torture?  Would you stick your children in the basement and torture them forever for not loving you?  No, you are not as petty and cruel as the god you worship.  Once you realize that perhaps you will start to change your mind about other aspects of your religion and revise the asinine concept of hell.

[Reginus]

By believing everyone who isn't in the buddy club deserves to be tortured forever is just as asinine and barbaric as the bronze aged people in the bible.  It doesn't matter that the belief is personal and you don't share it and condemn others for not having it.  That way of thinking belongs in the past.  The problem is most people have compartmentalized that particular belief so they do not question it.  I think hell should be questioned.  What finite crime deserves infinite punishment?  Not only infinite punishment but infinite torture?  Would you stick your children in the basement and torture them forever for not loving you?  No, you are not as petty and cruel as the god you worship.  Once you realize that perhaps you will start to change your mind about other aspects of your religion and revise the asinine concept of hell.

I just want to point out that in theological circles there is view on hell called "annihilationism" which holds that instead of being eternally tortured, the destruction of hell has eternal effects. These people say that this destruction is an act of mercy from God, designed to save people from their self-inflicted sin. And by the way, hardly any apologist takes the metaphors used to describe hell literally (many are contradictory). The Bible is simply saying that hell is a very bad place to be.

[LoneMateria]

By believing everyone who isn't in the buddy club deserves to be tortured forever is just as asinine and barbaric as the bronze aged people in the bible.  It doesn't matter that the belief is personal and you don't share it and condemn others for not having it.  That way of thinking belongs in the past.  The problem is most people have compartmentalized that particular belief so they do not question it.  I think hell should be questioned.  What finite crime deserves infinite punishment?  Not only infinite punishment but infinite torture?  Would you stick your children in the basement and torture them forever for not loving you?  No, you are not as petty and cruel as the god you worship.  Once you realize that perhaps you will start to change your mind about other aspects of your religion and revise the asinine concept of hell.

I just want to point out that in theological circles there is view on hell called "annihilationism" which holds that instead of being eternally tortured, the destruction of hell has eternal effects. These people say that this destruction is an act of mercy from God, designed to save people from their self-inflicted sin. And by the way, hardly any apologist takes the metaphors used to describe hell literally (many are contradictory). The Bible is simply saying that hell is a very bad place to be.

Oh wow you changed my mind annihilation for not being in the buddy club is sooo much better then hell [sarcasm].  And how exactly does this show God's mercy?  I don't like you so you're gone forever oh and i like these people so i'm going to stroke them forever, are you serious?  Annihilation is almost as asinine as hell.  I'm not sure what bible verses were used to make up annihilation, just like purgatory (which existed one day and not the next -_-).  The most fucked up part of Christianity is this idea that all you have to do is believe and you get eternal bliss.  Whats even worse is the mentality instilled into the minds of believers that if you don't believe you absolutely 100% deserve this fate.    

The screwed up thing is most believers who subscribe to this asinine system wouldn't implement it themselves if they were calling the shots.  Again do you think its right to torture people forever for finite "crimes"?  How about blink them out of existence?  The thing is the Christian view is black and white if you stole a loaf of break to feed your starving family you are just as deserving of hellfire(or annihilation [thou shalt not steal]) as a guy who goes around abducting girls, raping them and then murdering them.  What if that rapist was born with a mental disorder and doesn't know right from wrong?  Is it his fault or is it Gods who gave that disorder to him?  Does your God have the right to make people a certain way then condemn them to hell for not following his orders that were impossible to follow to begin with?  With God (the tyrant) there is no grey area there are no degrees of crime(or charity)  its either eternal bliss or eternal damnation.

If I were to spend my entire life helping others, donating money to charities, volunteering at places where people needed help that same God would still condemn me to hell (or annihilation) because i'm an atheist while he would forgive a serial killer on death row because he "found Jesus".  Fuck that asinine way of thinking it is primitive and it doesn't belong in civilized society.

Now this brings me to another thought.  Does God have the right to do this?  If you were in a lab and you created creatures do you have the right to destroy them?  Do you have the right to torture them?  Just because you have the ability does that mean you have the right?  Does might make right?  If you are a moral/rational human being then you would answer NO to this.  If you would say you don't have the right then why does your God?  Might does not make right.  If i'm stronger then you and able to do whatever I wanted to you do I have the right to do it?  NO!  The whole Heaven and Hell system is fucked up and it needs to be removed from the systems of belief.

[Ultima22689]

Excellent post Lone Materia.