Re: Masturbation...a sin?

[karadan]

I think that is a perfect example of how the bible unnecessarily complicates things which are generally very simple.

But the bible doesn't complicate it because the bible doesn't mention it.

The story of Onan is not even remotely about masturbation, and I don't care if the catholic "condoms help spread AIDS" church says it is.

hehe, ok, revised:

I think that is a perfect example of how followers of the bible unnecessarily complicates things which are generally very simple.

[SSY]

Are you saying that denying sex with the other party in marriage is somehow wrong? Do married people have a right to sex each other even when one is not feeling it?

No, I can understand if a party denies another party.  But in general, that is not really good practice.  I do not think you need to be Christian to realize this point.  But since i am a Christian, I hope you do not mind me sharing scripture (as it is the basis of my belief) on this point.

1 Corinthians 7:3-6

3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs. 4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.

 5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command.

Be specific, is it wrong to deny the other party? The bible says you must satisfy each others sexual needs, so that would preclude any form of denial, right? What if I sexually need a threesome with my wife's sister?

[Tom62]

Be specific, is it wrong to deny the other party? The bible says you must satisfy each others sexual needs, so that would preclude any form of denial, right? What if I sexually need a threesome with my wife's sister?

According to the Bible, God is very lenient towards immoral sexual relationships, providing of course that you are a righteous man. A good example is the incest story of Lot and his daughters in Genesis

19:30  And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.   [Brick Testament] The Seduction of Lot
19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

Little earlier in Lot's story we see an angry mob standing at Lot's house, demanding Lot to apprehend the two angels  that were present in his house. Being a righteous man, Lot replies to the mob

19:8  Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Yes, the Bible is truly a reference book for family values   .

[Nulono]

"And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even." Leviticus 15:16-17

You're unclean, but unclean isn't exactly sin. Moreover, when you start to look up cases of "unclean" in the Bible, you start finding the more funny verses. Shellfish? Unclean. New mother? Unclean. Touch a dead person? Unclean. You get the picture.

Not to mention birthing a son is cleaner than birthing a daughter!

[Fallen Jedii]

Yesterday a group of religious nuts came to my school preaching about how the world is heading in the wrong direction. They started off by saying that God exists and how you can accept it or not. A little later they started talking about sin and how if you don't repent for your sins and you happen to die within the next second your going straight to hell. They attempted to move us with their generic stories. "At one time I was a sinner. I drank, I smoked, I had sex, I masturbated etc. Then I saw God. The end." They were so full of themselves.

I guess they'll have to send me straight to hell then. I guess they'll have to send every man to hell. Maybe hell wouldn't be so bad after all then. It would be more like a reunion of sorts. Groovy...

[NaturaLCalamity]

Yesterday a group of religious nuts came to my school preaching about how the world is heading in the wrong direction. They started off by saying that God exists and how you can accept it or not. A little later they started talking about sin and how if you don't repent for your sins and you happen to die within the next second your going straight to hell. They attempted to move us with their generic stories. "At one time I was a sinner. I drank, I smoked, I had sex, I masturbated etc. Then I saw God. The end." They were so full of themselves.

I guess they'll have to send me straight to hell then. I guess they'll have to send every man to hell. Maybe hell wouldn't be so bad after all then. It would be more like a reunion of sorts. Groovy...

I never understood the reason for reprenting your sins. I mean, you'd do something that you know is wrong, follow through with it and then all of a sudden feel guilty and bad for what you've committed? Well, why the heck did you do it in the first place? I think relying on God is an easy way out and it stunts a persons growth on knowledge and learning from one's mistakes. Anyways, back on the topic, masturbation is fun! It shows that you love your penis enough to have a little fun time with him every so often. And God is all about love right? So that means God encourages masturbation!

That's my "irrational thinking" for the day.  

[Enoch Root]

I never understood the reason for reprenting your sins. I mean, you'd do something that you know is wrong, follow through with it and then all of a sudden feel guilty and bad for what you've committed? Well, why the heck did you do it in the first place?

You've never done something to hurt someone you care about, and then regret it after?  Seriously?

Repenting isn't just a religious act, it's something normal people do on a regular basis when they admit they screwed up and promise not to do it again.  It's part of being human and interacting with other people.  It's saying "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done that, and I won't repeat it."  Non-religious people don't call it "repenting", but it's the same thing.

[Hitsumei]

I never understood the reason for reprenting your sins. I mean, you'd do something that you know is wrong, follow through with it and then all of a sudden feel guilty and bad for what you've committed? Well, why the heck did you do it in the first place?

You've never done something to hurt someone you care about, and then regret it after?  Seriously?

Repenting isn't just a religious act, it's something normal people do on a regular basis when they admit they screwed up and promise not to do it again.  It's part of being human and interacting with other people.  It's saying "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done that, and I won't repeat it."  Non-religious people don't call it "repenting", but it's the same thing.

I think that's different, surely it's inadvertent when you do or say something that hurts someone. Fundamentalist members of the three Abraham religions have convinced themselves that things that they cannot refrain from are immoral, so they will inevitably do them, and then feel guilt, and have to repent. They can't feel sexual attraction toward anyone, male or female. They can't masturbate, take pride in themselves, or their work, or wish they had something someone they know owns. It is this warped sense of morality that leaves one constantly violating the rules, and having to inevitably repent for things they know they will do quite intentionally in the future, and it would be impossible for them not to.

Personally, I don't intentionally do anything I think is immoral, and when I do end up saying or doing something that I later judge to be in error, I apologize with the full intention of not repeating the mistake.

[ACSlater]

Hi to all. I've been talking to a couple of friends of mine who have been taking human sexuality classes this semester, and one brought up the topic of masturbation. I've heard before that Christians aren't allowed to masturbate because it is a sin. Why? I really don't know but I haven't read that part in the bible that states that also.

I grew up as a teenager in a conservative, "fundamentalist" church, but never heard one sermon or bible study or whatever about masturbation.  It was one of those "don't talk about it and maybe it'll go away" topics.  Realistically, I'd bet the majority of the people at my old church would just say it's a matter of personal conviction: if you think it's wrong don't do it, and generally mind your own business about it.

So they really weren't that crazy about the issue.

I had the same experience when this topic came up in church. No one taught that it was "wrong", but more of just the personal conviction you mentioned.

I've also heard that if a man stares at a woman with lust, then he has already committed to adultery.

In the bible's defense, that verse is specifically talking about a married man looking at a woman other than his wife, and "lust" refers to a very intentional, consuming desire.  Not a "wow she's pretty" glance.  It's an important distinction, my church didn't go around telling all teenage guys that they were evil for noticing girls.

Couldn't say it anyway better, so I'll just agree with you.