Atheists who go to church

[Sandra Craft]

This is a subject I find interesting -- being culturally religious, as opposed to a religious believer.  Apparently, even Dawkins considers himself a cultural Xtian.

Atheists are everywhere

It's a bit odd, isn't it? Brenden and Simar: two atheists who've dealt with religious intolerance. Richard Dawkins: a vocal critic of faith whose fond of religious tradition. But why? Isn't avoiding religion the whole point of atheism?

Well, no. Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in God or gods. It's not the rejection of religion; it's the absence of belief. So for some of us, going to church is an entirely social affair. Others feel compelled to find a "spiritual community" for their "personal growth and development" or some other nonsense I tune out the moment I hear. For those of us who find their spirituality elsewhere (the end of bottles, for example), it's about preserving a sense of cultural identity.

I remember we had a post on the site once, by Bluenose, about spiritual experiences of atheists and it seems quite a few of us had had something like that.  So, despite the article's snarkiness about spiritual communities, I think that could explain the attraction of certain religious groups, such as the UUs, to atheists.

[Recusant]

Good for those unbelievers who appreciate certain aspects of their religion. I've got nothing against that. I don't share their sentiment, however. I'll attend church along with family if that's what they're doing, but I would never go on my own voluntarily. Having developed a healthy contempt and revulsion verging on hatred for religion early on, my attitude has mellowed to an abiding disgust.

I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.

[Pasta Chick]

I guess it depends heavily on your church. I'm not opposed to the idea, but every sermon I've ever been to has been full of gross contempt. One church had fliers on all the pews including ads for an anti-Planned Parenthood "pregnancy advocate" center. The sort of place where they make their logo almost the same and when a woman accidentally wanders in, give her all sorts of information about how abortion kills your uterus and you'll probably die and if you don't you'll be depressed for the rest of your life.

I just can't look past that. At all. If it came up directly I'd argue it.

There's also the assumption that you are "one of the herd" so to speak just by being there. Which is part of why I simply sit quietly and listen when I do attend. I'm not about faking it. And I'm not interested in being part of group that not only doesn't understand who I am, but most likely would hate me for it if they knew. I'd rather be alone.

[Biggus Dickus]

I guess it depends heavily on your church. I'm not opposed to the idea, but every sermon I've ever been to has been full of gross contempt. One church had fliers on all the pews including ads for an anti-Planned Parenthood "pregnancy advocate" center. The sort of place where they make their logo almost the same and when a woman accidentally wanders in, give her all sorts of information about how abortion kills your uterus and you'll probably die and if you don't you'll be depressed for the rest of your life.

I just can't look past that. At all. If it came up directly I'd argue it.

There's also the assumption that you are "one of the herd" so to speak just by being there. Which is part of why I simply sit quietly and listen when I do attend. I'm not about faking it. And I'm not interested in being part of group that not only doesn't understand who I am, but most likely would hate me for it if they knew. I'd rather be alone.

Well stated PC, exactly how I feel more or less, though I wasn't always of this mind. When you grow up a Catholic, and go to a Catholic school for 12 years going to church becomes extremely routine, and in some ways even relaxing, almost meditative (Which I think many people ascribe to as being spiritual).
There were times years ago when I would accompany family members to church, sort of play along with it, but now you wouldn't get me into a church unless it was for a wedding or a funeral.

Especially considering how much I oppose the established and fucked up views of the church; truth be told if I'm in a church now I feel as strange and out of place as if I had snuck into a Sarah Palin/Ted Nugent rally.

Same thing if I'm at a dinner table with a group and someone wants to say grace, time was I would fold my hands on my lap, and bend my head down, more or less to be respectful of those who want to pray, but now like you I don't want to be seen or thought of as being part of that group or mindset. You want to say grace, find go ahead, but I'm going to sit here at the table starting straight ahead with my hands next to my plate, look as bored as I can, and not even pretend that I feel the need for this.

I have a hard and difficult time as it is just trying to appear outside the perceived notion of how I should thing and act simply because  I'm a white man, especially one who is also a vet.
Can't tell you how often some old racist, misogynist white dude at the club will spot by Army tattoo in the locker room or sauna and think that somehow implies that I too am as racist as he is...or that I'm some fuck-up conservative asshole who thinks all lives matter, not just black lives, and why the hell do we need Black History Month, when there isn't a White History Month (This I heard just recently).

Last night there was a Trump supporter getting all crazy and bent out of shape in the locker room, talking about making 'Merica great again, and getting rid of the immigrants, blah, blah, blah...couple guys had to tell him to cool it, apparently almost started a fight.

And this is in a club with a fairly large and diverse membership, as we have quite a large Middle Eastern population in this city.

Fortunately I missed the asshats rant, but some other guys told me about it later.

So one thing I don't also need is these folks thinking I'm christian as well, fuck that shit.

[Sandra Craft]

I guess it depends heavily on your church.

I think that makes all the difference.  Aside from an atheist who's still "passing", I can't imagine any atheist willingly going to the sort of church you, Res or Bruno describe, and atheists who go to church willingly are the ones the article is about. 

I've mentioned before that I go on and off (based purely on how lazy I'm feeling any Sunday morning) to the local UU church, and I'd die of old age sitting in my pew waiting to hear any fire or brimstone there.  The sermons rarely even mention Christ, and certainly no more often than, for instance, the Buddha or Changing Woman.  Mother Nature gets more mention than anyone, and even She gets it only in the context of something environmental.  The activism is exclusively progressive liberal -- they wouldn't be UU otherwise.

Even in more traditionally Xtian churches, such as my aunt's Episcopalian church, I've felt at home and never heard a racist, sexist or homophobic remark from anyone from the priest on down.  There are a number of openly gay parishioners with high positions, including my aunt.  I know that cannot be said for all Episcopalian churches, and in order for my aunt's church to do it they have to ignore a great deal of the bible.  Of course, the "clobber" type of Xtians also have to ignore a great deal of the bible but cherry-picking never bothered me, and I actively encourage the loving type of cherry-picking.

But that's not the part of the article that interests me most.  What I'm interested in is the cultural Xtianity that affects us whether we go to church or not, whether we realize we're affected by it or not.  Altho our Gov't is, and I hope will remain, secular, our society is basically Xtian and most atheists, like most theists, were raised Xtian.  We continue to live in Xtian surroundings with Xtians.  Most of our friends and family are Xtians (and those that aren't specifically Xtian are theists of some sort).

It's hard for me to believe that being an atheist would make us immune to all this Xtian immersion.  But I can also see how hard it would be pull apart what's cultural influence from the ethics or bias we would have come up with on our own.  To me, this is a fascinating if difficult puzzle.

[Sandra Craft]

I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.

I think the same thing, the only real roadblock between me and theism is my inability to find the supernatural anything but silly.  However, I've often found it easier to discuss such experiences with believers than non-believers -- we can't agree on the origins, but we can agree it happened and discuss what it might mean to us.  I appreciate that, esp. since such open-mindedness is a work in process for me.

[Magdalena]

I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.

I think the same thing, the only real roadblock between me and theism is my inability to find the supernatural anything but silly.  However, I've often found it easier to discuss such experiences with believers than non-believers -- we can't agree on the origins, but we can agree it happened and discuss what it might mean to us.  I appreciate that, esp. since such open-mindedness is a work in process for me.

Recusant gave me permission to use that quote in my signature. 
It pretty much describes how I feel about spirituality.

You said,

I lean to Frank Lloyd Wright's quote: I believe in god, only I spell it n-a-t-u-r-e.

Maybe spirituality should be a personal thing, not a group thing. If in the end everyone ends up in the same place, then maybe that would be God.

[xSilverPhinx]

Can't say I share the sentiment, I can count on one hand the number of times I sat through a mind-numbing sermon in churches of different denominations.

[Sandra Craft]

Maybe spirituality should be a personal thing, not a group thing. If in the end everyone ends up in the same place, then maybe that would be God.

Considering how group-oriented humans are, I don't think spirituality could ever be anything but both.

[Magdalena]

Maybe spirituality should be a personal thing, not a group thing. If in the end everyone ends up in the same place, then maybe that would be God.

Considering how group-oriented humans are, I don't think spirituality could ever be anything but both.

Unfortunately, when we share, a few start fighting about which spirituality is better and then we kill each other--over stuff that's just happening in our heads. 
~Not good.

[Sandra Craft]

Maybe spirituality should be a personal thing, not a group thing. If in the end everyone ends up in the same place, then maybe that would be God.

Considering how group-oriented humans are, I don't think spirituality could ever be anything but both.

Unfortunately, when we share, a few start fighting about which spirituality is better and then we kill each other--over stuff that's just happening in our heads. 
~Not good.

True, but if we weren't fight and killing each other over this, it would be over something else.  And often is.  I don't even worry about that any more.

[Magdalena]

Maybe spirituality should be a personal thing, not a group thing. If in the end everyone ends up in the same place, then maybe that would be God.

Considering how group-oriented humans are, I don't think spirituality could ever be anything but both.

Unfortunately, when we share, a few start fighting about which spirituality is better and then we kill each other--over stuff that's just happening in our heads. 
~Not good.

True, but if we weren't fight and killing each other over this, it would be over something else.  And often is.  I don't even worry about that any more.

True. 

I know you don't worry any more, but I do tell myself every night, "Don't worry Mags, Donald Trump, bless his holy pink face, will make this a better world and Sarah Palin, bless her holy sentence fragments, will help him."
So you see, BCE, things will get better. 

[Sandra Craft]

So you see, BCE, things will get better. 

So they will, if my plans to set Trump on fire without getting caught come off.  See?  Always with the fighting and killing!

[Magdalena]

So you see, BCE, things will get better. 

So they will, if my plans to set Trump on fire without getting caught come off.  See?  Always with the fighting and killing!

I wouldn't call that fighting and killing, I would just call it, roasting a pig.

[Guardian85]

So you see, BCE, things will get better. 

So they will, if my plans to set Trump on fire without getting caught come off.  See?  Always with the fighting and killing!

Want some pointers?