HOORAY for atheism!!!

[Kyuuketsuki]

Kyu, when I last looked, karakara was a member in good standing here just as much as you are. He is not an interloper. Although this is an atheist forum, all people are welcome as members. Additionally, whether or not you agree with me or not on my assertion that sometimes you just have to agree to disagree, that's the truth. Sometimes you do. If you want to ignore that advice, you are free to as you are not breaking any forum rules of course, but the adage of "win the battle and lose the war" comes to mind here. You gain nothing by your current course of action, but stand to gain credibility by taking a higher road and allowing another individual his opinion.

Actually I do gain something ... I continue to demonstrate that Karakra is not observing the generally understood conventions of debate, that makes her look bad and, if the truth be known, I'm entirely happy with that.

Kyu

[PipeBox]

Psst, Kyu, him, you'd be making him look bad.  But I did honestly think he was a she, too, the name structure lead me astray.  

OK, I'll go hide under a rock now.

[karadan]

Hmm, i just realised my name begins with 'Kara' too... Hope people here don't think i'm a girl. Not that that's a bad thing, just that i like to avoid misconceptions where possible

[NoFearNoLimits]

Seems like the bus campaign is in the US also now  

http://ozatheist.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/atheist-bus-campaign-comes-to-america/

[Kyuuketsuki]

Seems like the bus campaign is in the US also now  

http://ozatheist.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/atheist-bus-campaign-comes-to-america/

Ouch! I can see there being trouble over it there!!!

Kyu

[karadan]

Seems like the bus campaign is in the US also now  

http://ozatheist.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/atheist-bus-campaign-comes-to-america/

Ouch! I can see there being trouble over it there!!!

Kyu

Wow!!

That is badass. I'll be watching that story closely.

Well found.

[Lila]

The American buses are going to get graffiti all over them.

[curiosityandthecat]

The American buses are going to get graffiti all over them.

They really should just put images blank canvases on all the other buses and say, "PLACE YOUR ART HERE".  

[Zarathustra]

The American buses are going to get graffiti all over them.

And yet the christians over there claim moral high ground... is vandalizing buses considered beneficial for society? Isn't it a crime?

[karakara]

There are probably only a handful of places in the U.S. where such nonsense will be tolerated -- I say 'nonsense', because you're not promoting intelligent discourse, but simply being provocative.. so expect a visceral reaction.

I can see Berkeley, CA and maybe San Franscisco enthusiastically embracing these banners.. you'll have to find not only ultra-liberal enclaves, but those which also control local governments. For example, I live in the 5 College Area of Western Massachusetts, all of which have a reputation for being located in fairly liberal communities, but even so, there are enough powerful religious community leaders such that this would have zero chance of avoiding conflict.. the banners would be torn off, or the public transit system would be ordered to remove them.

Christianity might be on the decline in the U.K.. .for that matter, I wonder how many Muslims would tolerate this.. but in the U.S., they're still quite energized.. not to mention our Jewish, Muslim, etc., leaders who just will not be able to abide this.  

And if the banners ride around town on buses in Berkeley, who cares?? You won't see this in New York City...

[Zarathustra]

There are probably only a handful of places in the U.S. where such nonsense will be tolerated -- I say 'nonsense', because you're not promoting intelligent discourse, but simply being provocative

How so? Elaborate please...

.. there are enough powerful religious community leaders such that this would have zero chance of avoiding conflict.. the banners would be torn off, or the public transit system would be ordered to remove them...not to mention our Jewish, Muslim, etc., leaders who just will not be able to abide this.  

Why not? Christians abide Jews openly denying that Jesus was the son of God, Muslims abide the Christians claim that their religion is inherantly evil, and so on and so forth. Why should this be ANY different?

[PipeBox]

Seriously.  I think if Muslim and Christian and other assorted religious messages can travel around unassailed, then atheist messages can too.  Especially since this shouldn't even qualify as "nonsense," given it isn't presented as an attack but a message of community and well-wishes for the sake of them.

There's no way this deserves to be defaced, though some people will take the smallest things as threats to their faith.  If I can stay my hand and not vandalize church signs, surely those with the help of their gods can stay their hands from defacing public transports.

[Zarathustra]

Seriously.  I think if Muslim and Christian and other assorted religious messages can travel around unassailed, then atheist messages can too. .

My point exactly! Well put

[karakara]

Seriously.  I think if Muslim and Christian and other assorted religious messages can travel around unassailed, then atheist messages can too.  Especially since this shouldn't even qualify as "nonsense," given it isn't presented as an attack but a message of community and well-wishes for the sake of them.

There's no way this deserves to be defaced, though some people will take the smallest things as threats to their faith.  If I can stay my hand and not vandalize church signs, surely those with the help of their gods can stay their hands from defacing public transports.

As I've said before,

Perspective is Everything..

How do you think this will be perceived by religious people??? Of course, you yourselves see this as 'a message of community and well-wishes for
the sake of them..' are you deaf, blind and dumb as to how this will be perceived by the 'other side'? Your take on what this is about is irrelevant as far as how it is perceived by religious people. Just as if the situation were reversed in some way.. they would fail to take into account your world view as you see it...

Friend, why would you vandalize church signs?  I don't see this as an appropriate analogy. It's not like mainstream... anywhere... has ever been atheist and some church has sprung up, and is putting billboards on buses ... even that's not a good analogy.. I shouldn't even have to make one, this is so self-evident to anyone with even a shred of wherewithal  and empathy. As they see it, Religion everywhere is under attack.. whether this is accurate or not isn't the point, that's their perception.. so why not engage in dialog rather than some smug and superficially harmless gesture as the bus banners, which, having Dawkins' fingerprints all over them, have a huge agenda behind them.

I try to have empathy for the atheist side, as you know I was one.. easy for me. Empathy does not come naturally for many.. try to walk the mile in the other shoe...

[karakara]

Seriously.  I think if Muslim and Christian and other assorted religious messages can travel around unassailed, then atheist messages can too. .

My point exactly! Well put

OK Major Tom, but I expected a more... philosophical ... opinion from you.