SIKH A LEARNER

[jcm]

I don't know what the point of this thread is.

we do not end our sentences with prepositions.

[risky]

yes GOD   lives  in everyone of us  , but everyone can't be worshipped bcoz  

consider a  diamond  that  is covered with   dust ,dirt or filth  . no doubt  it  is  diamond  but  it is worthless  without  light  ,  same  is case  we are  covered  with  the filth of   lust  , anger , greed  , ego  ....  the light within us is blocked by this dust , there  is darkness , we are anaware  of our value  ,  our strength , ....

this filth  or darkness  can  only be   removed   by   GURUS words

So what your saying is that...

A Guru's words can only remove this filth, hence a Guru is blessed & the Guru is free of any filth. So to worship God i can worship this Guru; this Guru can be used as a median basically. Right?

[GURSIKH]

RISKY WROTE -So what your saying is that...

A Guru's words can only remove this filth, hence a Guru is blessed & the Guru is free of any filth. So to worship God i can worship this Guru; this Guru can be used as a median basically. Right?

yes dear i m  saying  the  same  bcoz  my guru  also says the  same  after churning  the  ocean


ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਵਿਰੋਲਿ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਹਮ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਇਕ ਵਸਤੁ à¨...ਨà©,ਪ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥
I have churned the ocean of the body, and I have seen the incomparable thing come into view.

 
ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਗਵਿੰਦੁ ਗੁਰà©, ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੪॥੧॥੮॥
The Guru is God, and God is the Guru, O Nanak; there is no difference between the two, O Siblings of Destiny. ||4||1||8||

[jcm]

Applying a fair amount of circular logic usually helps.  

thanks, i'll keep that in mind.

[jcm]

jcm - if you can not describe god and the purpose is the become god, how do you know when you are god if you can not describe god?

à¨...ਬ ਤਬ ਜਬ ਕਬ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ॥
Now and then, here and there, You, only You.

ਹਮ ਤੁà¨... ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁਖੀ ਸਦ ਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
By Your Grace, I am forever in peace. |Pause|

à¨...ਬ ਤਉ ਜਾਇ ਚਢੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਨਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਹੈ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਨੀ ॥
Now, I have mounted to the throne of the Lord; I have met the Lord, the Sustainer of the World.

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥
The Lord and Kabeer have become one. No one can tell them apart. ||
 
and  also

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ à¨...ੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥
You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us?

ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥
We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. |

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਜਨੁ ਜਾਨੀਜੈ ਜਨ ਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥
The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. |

ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥
O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is   very rare .

oh boy get a mop, more verse vomit

[risky]

sikhism was founded by guru nanak dev ji  15 century , in north india (PUNJAB), GURU NANAK sahib was followed by 2nd guru , then upto tenth nanak ,fifth  nanak ji compiled hymns of gurus and few hindus as well as muslims    into a holy book  and  installed at golden temple  amritsar , at his last moments tenth nanak  ordered sikhs that  now onwards this holy book  (GURU GRANTH SAHIB ) is your guru

So this 'holy' book is a mixture of Hinduism & Islam & Guru Wisdom? So you basically base Sikhism off two religions & Wisdom from Gurus... O_o

And you also worship Guru Nanak dev ji or Guru Granth Sahib which were men on earth that were the embodiment of God or something? How about the other 8 Gurus?

[Faithless]

GURSIKH, are you capable of discussing what you seem to be trying to tell us with your endless spamming of verses, WITHOUT spamming said verses?

Other than continually expounding on the greatness of God and Nanak, those verses don't really say anything.  I am trying to keep an open mind, but frankly at this point my brain hurts.

[GURSIKH]

sorry  faithless , i don't  want to hurt anyone  , i m quiting the  forum  ,plz   be happy  as is the name of the forum .  

 just  one   reply  to  risky  

risky    So this 'holy' book is a mixture of  hindu ism & Islam & Guru Wisdom? So you basically base Sikhism off two religions & Wisdom from Gurus... O_o

And you also worship Guru Nanak dev ji or Guru Granth Sahib which were men on earth that were the embodiment of God or something? How about the other 8 Gurus?

dear below is little more abt sikhism ,

sikhism is not mixture of hinduism  and  islam  

guru nanak  did not  accepted  worship  of   dieties or idols  and   rituals  ,  gurus rejected  all the vedas  and puranas   the hindu scripture

when guru  nanak was younger   , the hindu preist tried to tie sacred  thread to him

my beloved  replied ਦਇਆ ਕਪਾਹ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸà©,ਤੁ ਜਤੁ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਤੁ ਵਟੁ ॥
Make compassion the cotton, contentment the thread, modesty the knot and truth the twist.

 
ਏਹੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਜੀà¨... ਕਾ ਹਈ ਤ ਪਾਡੇ ਘਤੁ ॥
This is the sacred thread of the soul; if you have it, then go ahead and put it on me.

 
ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਤੁਟੈ ਨ ਮਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਜਲੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
It does not break, it cannot be soiled by filth, it cannot be burnt, or lost.

 
ਧੰਨੁ ਸੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਗਲਿ ਚਲੇ ਪਾਇ ॥
Blessed are those mortal beings, O Nanak, who wear such a thread around their necks


[attachment=0:211dd3p0]gtfront.jpg[/attachment:211dd3p0]

[GURSIKH]

risky -[How about the other 8 Gurus?/quote]

dear  all  guru  s use  name  NANAK  as  signature in  their verses , ie  not only  first nanak   s but 2, 3, 4 , 5 ,9  ,10   th gurus verses  are  given under the name nanak .

dear  5th nanak  was  martyed by mughal  empror  jahangir , son of akbar

i can provide you original  words of jahangir  from his biography , he viewed guru as threat to islam .[attachment=2:3ssj1p70]martyrdomofarjandev.jpg[/attachment:3ssj1p70]

sixth guru HARGOBIND JI defended  his faith  and wore two  swords  MIRI AND PIRI , he built  a THRONE   known  as  AKAAL  THAKT  just  opposite to golden temple[attachment=1:3ssj1p70]guru_hargobind.jpg[/attachment:3ssj1p70]

ninth nanak  teg bahadur ji was also beheaded  by  mughal emporer aurangjeb  at  chandni chownk dehli  along with other sikhs
http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/Martyrs/ ... tiDyal.htm

tenth nanak  guru gobind singh  created khalsa panth in 1699 , gave a name singh  to all sikhs , singh means a lion , he order sikhs to grow kesh (beard ) and tie a turban  as a crown
tenth gurus   little four sons are also killed by  aurangjeb[attachment=0:3ssj1p70]300px-Sahibzaadey_being_Bricked_Alive.jpg[/attachment:3ssj1p70]


WAHEGURU GI  KA KHALSA  (  PURE BELONGS TO GOD )

WAHEGURU  GI KI  FATEH    (VICTORY  BELOGS TO GOD )

[Jolly Sapper]

I don't think you need to quit so much as get to the point of your argument.  We're atheists, not poets, most of the reason we engage each other in conversation is to debate one point or another.

If you wanted to explain to us what Sikhism is, then by all means write up a report.  Copying and pasting so many verses, but with little point, should be avoided as it probably is little more than fancy poetry to most of us non-believers.

Though I guess you could just use the Spoiler or Code tags.  Both would give you a way to copy and paste large portions of Sikhish texts while giving us the option of perusing them at our leisure.

[risky]

fifth nanak ji compiled hymns of gurus and few hindus as well as muslims into a holy book

sikhism is not mixture of hinduism and islam

[GURSIKH]

THANKS JOLLY , honestly i  also don't want to quit .

We're atheists, not poets

i know  my guru is more atheist  than you  ppls in  banging hollow religious  ritual and belief s ,i can prove it .

busy  now ,thanks  to all happy atheists FOR BEING PATIENCE  especially MCQ , WILL , AMSO ,

JOLLY , JCM , TOM  ,FAITHLESS, MARTIN AND TO RISKY  ALSO  .

Harmanpreet  Singh

    MASTERS  IN APPLIED PHYSICS  ( NANOTECHNOLOGY)
     NOW JOINING   RESEARCH   IN SAME FIELD

[curiosityandthecat]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled normal.

 

[karakara]

I'm also a Sikh .. White, American. I was an Atheist for more than 20 years, previously Catholic in my youth. Let me say, that I have no problem with Atheists, and certainly would not come here to pick a fight! I too 'questioned everything' but what I discovered is that logic and rationality only get you so far in that there are dimensions of human consciousness that are .. or at least, CAN be in tune with something that transcends what we can easily observe, quantify, define, categorize.. that which is transcendent, and that which we intuitively know.

First, Sikhs do not forceibly convert, ever, period. Sikhs rarely do missionary work.. very rare, and it's not sanctioned in our book Siri Guru Granth Sahib.. which is the collective works of all 10 Sikh Gurus, immortalized and sanctified by our final living Guru, Gobind Singh Ji, arguabley one of the greatest heroes to have ever walked the Earth. Sikhs, especially Khalsa (baptised Sikhs) worship Guru Gobind Singh as a Christ-like figure.. I have the greatest love for this brilliant and brave man, I must admit.

Sikhs are Monotheistic, but in the Dharmic sense .. related to Hindus, Jains, Buddhists in this sense..  and preach peace and compassion to a degree only found elsewhere in Christianity.. a MAJOR difference, Sikhs do not 'turn the other cheek', but are mandated to defend ourselves, and the defenseless..even people of other faiths.. (even Atheists!!)  pacifism is not an option against aggressors.

Our entire 'Holy Book' is sacred Hymn written by our Gurus, to be Sung in our temples (Gurdwaras).. and in our homes. Sikh devotional music is world famous, and we believe anyone can hear God's voice in our music. SGGS Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh 'Bible') is 1430 pages of 'Gurbani', i.e., 'Sacred Hymn', to be sung... quite unique and beautiful.

Oh.. important, Sikhs don't believe the Human Race is 'fallen'! On the contrary, we are Divine creatures, divinity is inside us all, even in your Atheists ;-) .. God lives and breaths through us, and his light shines in every heart. Many of your will intuitively know this to be true.

I haven't even scratched the surface on the legendary courage and heroism of Sikhs fighting invaders, saving the entire Hindu Faith, saving India from Muslim conquest. How about women.. all women are equal to all men in Sikism. Famous Sikh women have led Sikhs charging into battle, defeating Muslim armies.. A Sikh woman was commander of all Sikh armies, and another Sikh woman defeated British forces in Battle in modern times..

OK, that's all, if you want to just check out some Sikh music (Kirtan) sung by another American Sikh (in Gurmukhi, holy language of Sikhs, and English..) check out Snatam Kaur Khalsa, Sikh 'Gift to Humanity', voice of an angel, heart of a Saint. Free music auto-plays on her website.
http://www.snatamkaur.com/

Fateh Atheist Friends!

[karakara]

So this 'holy' book is a mixture of Hinduism & Islam & Guru Wisdom? So you basically base Sikhism off two religions & Wisdom from Gurus... O_o

And you also worship Guru Nanak dev ji or Guru Granth Sahib which were men on earth that were the embodiment of God or something? How about the other 8 Gurus?

No, friends, this is quite the misconception. Hindus and Muslims are always claiming that Sikhs are really an offshoot of both, but neither. Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak, after he went off alone, pondered the human condition and the world as he saw it, and reportedly had 'divine revelation' as to the nature of reality, humanity, and God. Nanak claims that 'there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim', only children of the one creator of the universe, which we call 'Ek Ong Kaar'. It's a God, or 'Creator' in the diffused, Dharmic sense. God is in every living thing, humans above all. We are manifestations of God.

There are quotes from Qur'an .. some. But this is illustrative, to show that even in religions which Sikhism disagrees with, there can be found some truths. Also, quotes from Hindu sages, Vedic writings. But overwhemingly, Sikhism was revolutionary, over 500 years old now and still what other faith can claim to be as open minded, egalitarian, humane, no conflict with science(!), and equality of women.. so, Sikhs NOT Hindu or Muslim at all, we have a unique, and we are quite sure, God-inspired faith which challenges us as Human Beings to live up to the Divinity that God has endowed us with. I speak of Sikhism with young people often.. after they learn about us, they often describe us as 'Jedi Knights'.. I laughed, but actually, that's pretty acurrate, sans Light Sabers...