SIKH A LEARNER

[GURSIKH]

squid    Fascinating story. Did you think about adapting it to the stage?" - Book of House 1:14

sorry  i m unable to understand ????

here is link to the entire guru granth sahib ji , you can enter any page no
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurban ... =1&p=0&k=0

[jcm]

sikhism was founded by guru nanak dev ji

how can he know about god if it is said:

If anyone presumes to describe God, he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools!

By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.

Didn't the guru use his mind to create sikhism and an understanding of god?

Why is it foolish to describe god? Isn't that the purpose of the religion? Also if god is inconceivable, how does anyone know anything about him?

[Tom62]

hello tom  

here is link to  the entire  guru granth sahib ji , you can enter any page no

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurban ... =1&p=0&k=0

I had a look at the site and selected approx. 20 pages randomly (there are more than 1400 of them). I must honestly admit that I found them interesting but rather boring, because all the pages looked the same to me. Page after page after page about how God is so great and anything else is noting but a worm is not really something that interest me. To find true wisdom in the guru's texts is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

[GURSIKH]

Tom  I must honestly admit that I found them interesting but rather boring, because all the pages looked the same to me. Page after page after page about how God is so great and anything else is noting but a worm is not really something that interest me  

I can understand dear, He alone knows the importance of these words , who feels the pain


 à©´ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

 
à¨...ਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਜਾਗੈ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਸੋਵੈ ॥
Day and night, he remains awake and aware; he never sleeps or dreams.

 
ਸੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਵੇਦਨ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
He alone knows this, who feels the pain of separation from God.

 
ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਕੇ ਕਾਨ ਲਗੇ ਤਨ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਵੈਦੁ ਕਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਕਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
My body is pierced through with the arrow of love. How can any physician know the cure? ||1||

 
ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਿਫਤੀ ਲਾਏ ॥
Whom the True Lord links to His Praise,

 
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਕਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥
that rare one, as Gurmukh, understands.

 
à¨...ੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਸੋਈ ਜਾਣੈ ਜਿ à¨...ੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਾ ਵਾਪਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
He alone appreciates the value of the Ambsosial Nectar, who deals in this Ambrosia. ||1||Pause||

 
ਪਿਰ ਸੇਤੀ ਧਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੁ ਰਚਾਏ ॥
The soul-bride is in love with her Husband Lord;

 
ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਤਥਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ॥
the bride focuses her consciousness on the Word of the Guru .

[GURSIKH]

jcm  - Didn't the guru use his mind to create sikhism and an understanding of god?

yes guru didn't used  his mind to create sikhism bcoz he sold his mind to god as guru nanak says

ਜਿਉ ਬੁਲਾਵਹੁ ਤਿਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਬੋਲੈ ॥੮॥੨੧॥
As You inspire me  to speak, O Lord, so does servant Nanak speak. ||8||21||

Why is it foolish to decribe god?

because  a fish can 't describe ocean


ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਪਵਣੁ ਪੀà¨...ਣੁ à¨...ਪਿਆਉ ॥
If I could live for millions and millions of years, and if the air was my food and drink,

 
ਚੰਦੁ ਸà©,ਰਜੁ ਦੁਇ ਗੁਫੈ ਨ ਦੇਖਾ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਸਉਣ ਨ ਥਾਉ ॥
and if I lived in a cave and never saw either the sun or the moon, and if I never slept, even in dreams -

 
ਭੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਹਉ ਕੇਵਡੁ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥
even so, I could not estimate Your Value. How can I describe the Greatness of Your Name? ||1||

 
ਸਾਚਾ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਨਿਜ ਥਾਇ ॥
The True Lord, the Formless One, is Himself in His Own Place.

 
ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਆਖਣੁ ਆਖਣਾ ਜੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਕਰੇ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
I have heard, over and over again, and so I tell the tale; as it pleases You, Lord, please instill within me the yearning for You. ||1||Pause||

 
ਕੁਸਾ ਕਟੀਆ ਵਾਰ ਵਾਰ ਪੀਸਣਿ ਪੀਸਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
If I was slashed and cut into pieces, over and over again, and put into the mill and ground into flour,

 
à¨...ਗੀ ਸੇਤੀ ਜਾਲੀਆ ਭਸਮ ਸੇਤੀ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥
burnt by fire and mixed with ashes -

 
ਭੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਹਉ ਕੇਵਡੁ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੨॥
even then, I could not estimate Your Value. How can I describe the Greatness of Your Name? ||2||

 
ਪੰਖੀ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਜੇ ਭਵਾ ਸੈ à¨...ਸਮਾਨੀ ਜਾਉ ॥
If I was a bird, soaring and flying through hundreds of heavens,

 
ਨਦਰੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਆਵਊ ਨਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਪੀਆ ਨ ਖਾਉ ॥
and if I was invisible, neither eating nor drinking anything -

 
ਭੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਹਉ ਕੇਵਡੁ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੩॥
even so, I could not estimate Your Value. How can I describe the Greatness of Your Name? ||3

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾਗਦ ਲਖ ਮਣਾ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਕੀਚੈ ਭਾਉ ॥
O Nanak, if I had hundreds of thousands of stacks of paper, and if I were to read and recite and embrace love for the Lord,

 
ਮਸà©, ਤੋਟਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਲੇਖਣਿ ਪਉਣੁ ਚਲਾਉ ॥
and if ink were never to fail me, and if my pen were able to move like the wind -

 
ਭੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਹਉ ਕੇਵਡੁ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੨॥
even so, I could not estimate Your Value. How can I describe the Greatness of Your Name? ||4||2||

[Asmodean]

purpose  of believing  god  is to become  god .

Which in turn is quite useless unless you have someone lined up to worship you.

[jcm]

purpose  of believing  god  is to become  god .

if you can not describe god and the purpose is the become god, how do you know when you are god if you can not describe god?

[Asmodean]

purpose  of believing  god  is to become  god .

if you can not describe god and the purpose is the become god, how do you know when you are god if you can not describe god?

Applying a fair amount of circular logic usually helps.  

[Martian]

I don't know what the point of this thread is.

[GURSIKH]

jcm - if you can not describe god and the purpose is the become god, how do you know when you are god if you can not describe god?

à¨...ਬ ਤਬ ਜਬ ਕਬ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ॥
Now and then, here and there, You, only You.

ਹਮ ਤੁà¨... ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁਖੀ ਸਦ ਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
By Your Grace, I am forever in peace. |Pause|

à¨...ਬ ਤਉ ਜਾਇ ਚਢੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਨਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਹੈ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਪਾਨੀ ॥
Now, I have mounted to the throne of the Lord; I have met the Lord, the Sustainer of the World.

ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥
The Lord and Kabeer have become one. No one can tell them apart. ||
 
and  also

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ à¨...ੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥
You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us?

ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥
We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. |

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇ ਜਨੁ ਜਾਨੀਜੈ ਜਨ ਤੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ॥
The servant is known by his God, and the Lord and Master is known by His servant. |

ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਸਮ ਦਲ ਸਮਝਾਵੈ ਕੋਊ ॥
O Ravi Daas, one who understands that the Lord is equally in all, is   very rare .

[Will]

by Willravel  

Is Waheguru a personal deity or a pantheistic definition for everything?

waheguru is not a diety  ,HE IS formless and  beyond time ie  not within space time coordinate  

à©´ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ à¨...ਕਾਲ ਮà©,ਰਤਿ à¨...ਜà©,ਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
There is but one God(waheguru). True is His Name, creative His personality and immortal His form. He is without fear sans enmity, unborn and self-illumined. By the Guru's grace He is obtained.

So Sikhism is pantheism?

[GURSIKH]

Asmodean  

GURSIKH wrote:
purpose of believing god is to become god .

Which in turn is quite useless unless you have someone lined up to worship you.

no linig up is required , only one breath is required

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

 
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਇਫਤਰਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਿਲ ਕਾ ਫਿਕਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
The Vedas and the Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart.

 
ਟੁਕੁ ਦਮੁ ਕਰਾਰੀ ਜਉ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਾਜਿਰ ਹਜà©,ਰਿ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥੧॥
If you will only center yourself on the Lord, even for just a breath, then you shall see the Lord face-to-face, present before you. ||1||

 
ਬੰਦੇ ਖੋਜੁ ਦਿਲ ਹਰ ਰੋਜ ਨਾ ਫਿਰੁ ਪਰੇਸਾਨੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
O human being, search your own heart every day, and do not wander around in confusion.

 
ਇਹ ਜੁ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸਿਹਰੁ ਮੇਲਾ ਦਸਤਗੀਰੀ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
This world is just a magic-show; no one will be holding your hand. ||1||Pause||

 
ਦਰੋਗੁ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਖੁਸੀ ਹੋਇ ਬੇਖਬਰ ਬਾਦੁ ਬਕਾਹਿ ॥
Reading and studying falsehood, people are happy; in their ignorance, they speak nonsense.

 
ਹਕੁ ਸਚੁ ਖਾਲਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਮਿਆਨੇ ਸਿਆਮ ਮà©,ਰਤਿ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
The True Creator Lord is diffused into His creation; He is not just the dark-skinned Krishna of legends. ||2||

 
à¨...ਸਮਾਨ ‍ਿਮ੍ਯ੍ਯਨੇ ਲਹੰਗ ਦਰੀਆ ਗੁਸਲ ਕਰਦਨ ਬà©,ਦ ॥
Through the Tenth Gate, the stream of nectar flows; take your bath in this.

 
ਕਰਿ ਫਕਰੁ ਦਾਇਮ ਲਾਇ ਚਸਮੇ ਜਹ ਤਹਾ ਮਉਜà©,ਦੁ ॥੩॥
Serve the Lord forever; use your eyes, and see Him ever-present everywhere. ||3||

 
à¨...ਲਾਹ ਪਾਕੰ ਪਾਕ ਹੈ ਸਕ ਕਰਉ ਜੇ ਦà©,ਸਰ ਹੋਇ ॥
The Lord is the purest of the pure; only through doubt could there be another.

 
ਕਬੀਰ ਕਰਮੁ ਕਰੀਮ ਕਾ ਉਹੁ ਕਰੈ ਜਾਨੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧॥
O Kabeer, mercy flows from the Merciful Lord; He alone knows who acts. ||4||1||

[GURSIKH]

Willravel -So Sikhism is pantheism?

you can say , everything is god , you are god , i am god   nothing  else .

[Will]

Willravel -So Sikhism is pantheism?

you can say , everything is god , you are god , i am god   nothing  else .

If god is everything, why use the word god? It seems a little misleading considering what the majority of people on Earth think of as god. Why not just use the word "everything"? Do you worship "everything"?

[GURSIKH]

WILL  -If god is everything, why use the word god? It seems a little misleading considering what the majority of people on Earth think of as god. Why not just use the word "everything"? Do you worship "everything"?

HELLO dear let  me clear my point ,

yes GOD   lives  in everyone of us  , but everyone can't be worshipped bcoz  

consider a  diamond  that  is covered with   dust ,dirt or filth  . no doubt  it  is  diamond  but  it is worthless  without  light  ,  same  is case  we are  covered  with  the filth of   lust  , anger , greed  , ego  ....  the light within us is blocked by this dust , there  is darkness , we are anaware  of our value  ,  our strength , ....

this filth  or darkness   can  only be   removed   by   GURUS words ,  

ਜੇ ਸਉ ਚੰਦਾ ਉਗਵਹਿ ਸà©,ਰਜ ਚੜਹਿ ਹਜਾਰ ॥
If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared,

 
ਏਤੇ ਚਾਨਣ ਹੋਦਿਆà¨, ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰ à¨...ੰਧਾਰ ॥੨॥
even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2||
 


and

ਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਹਜੁ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
Without the Guru, intuitive wisdom does not come, and the filth of greed does not depart from within.

 
ਖਿਨੁ ਪਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਭ à¨...ਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਇ ॥
If the Lord's Name abides within the mind, for a moment, even for an instant, it is like bathing at all the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage.

 
ਸਚੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਦà©,ਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥
Filth does not stick to those who are true, but filth attaches itself to those who love duality.

 
ਧੋਤੀ ਮà©,ਲਿ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਜੇ à¨...ਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਇ ॥
This filth cannot be washed off, even by bathing at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage.

 
ਮਨਮੁਖ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੇ à¨...ਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਸਭੁ ਦੁਖੋ ਦੁਖੁ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
The self-willed manmukh does deeds in egotism; he earns only pain and more pain.

 
ਨਾਨਕ ਮੈਲਾ ਊਜਲੁ ਤਾ ਥੀਐ ਜਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥
O Nanak, the filthy ones become clean only when they meet and surrender to the True Guru. ||1||



for more dear you can go to  
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurban ... am=punjabi