I'll Say This Much About Jesus...

[AnimatedDirt]

Nothing.

When a person makes a statement of; "I hope it is sunny on my wedding day." to whom is that directed to?  Is rain or stormy weather just as welcome than a sunny day?  It seems to me there is a preference.

I agree I am expressing a preference. But that's it. It's not asking anybody to change or influence matters to accommodate my preferences.

In prayer, I too am expressing a preference, a hope.  Just because I pray for something does not force God to do my will in that instance.

Anyway.  I didn't mean for this to become a very big deal.  'Twas just thought.

[AnimatedDirt]

You haven't that I know of.  I stand corrected.

So what did you mean exactly by, "Speaks volumes doesn't it?"

That even the believers first look to material answers when expediency is required.
It's like that saying that there are no atheists in foxholes. I would say there aren't many theists in the foxholes.
When push comes to shove we look to ourselves and our actions for survival, praying to gods is a luxury that only those with time to spare can choose to do.
Seeking the kingdom of god does not come first. Survival comes first.

So they first put their faith in medical science, then when there is nothing more that they can do, they then put their faith into the kingdom of god.
Speaks volumes doesn't it?

If it doesn't imply delusion or something of that nature, what does it mean?   ( For future reference )

It means people first seek to survive via material means. Our reality is different to the stories of the bible, we don't seek Jesus and then poof our loved ones are cured. Christians know (no delusion here) this to be true. They have proven that they know this to be true. They seek god's help only when time allows, when there is nothing more "material" that they can do.

I can agree with that.  It's a lot like the notion that God helps those who help themselves.  In other words sometimes we can create our own "miracles" in that sometimes the miracle is born simply of want to survive.  Courage, birthed from fear, sometimes causes us to do things we wouldn't otherwise do when death isn't staring us in the face.  One might ask, then how did God help in this situation?  One person gives the glory to God for courage another gives self a pat on the back for the same.  That's all.

[cncracer]

What I would say, with or without art work is I don't think he existed. No records other than the bible, and we all know its accuracy rate is not even as good as Gov. Perry in Texas. Bits and pieces of a half dozen sun gods to make up the tails of his life, no records from a Roman culture who recorded everything in detail. Seems strange they would not record the execution of a man claiming to be the son of god and the king of men. Too many things just don't match up and I see his character, thin or not, as being a fraud; which has resulted in the killing of 250,000,000 people and counting.     

[MadBomr101]

In prayer, I too am expressing a preference, a hope.  Just because I pray for something does not force God to do my will in that instance.

Hope = Wishing it were so.

Prayer = Hoping god makes it so through divine intervention.

Hope is one thing, Prayer is another.  That's why we have separate words to distinguish the two.

This concludes today's lesson in the obvious.

[Crow]

This concludes today's lesson in the obvious.

It certainly does.

[The Magic Pudding]

Hope can possibly become a bit irrational, the active willing of your creature/person or thing across the finish line or the survival of little fluffy crossing the minefield. 

[Stevil]

Hope can possibly become a bit irrational, the active willing of your creature/person or thing across the finish line or the survival of little fluffy crossing the minefield. 

Hope can be an optimistic outlook.

You may work hard to achieve a goal, if you have no hope of achieving that goal, you ought to reassess your goals.

A pessimist may feel in a hopeless position more often than an optimist, It doesn't matter what they do, their goal won't be achieved. Without hope a person may become despondent, may lack motivation, and may become depressed. With hope, comes opportunity, motivation and confidence.

When a person expresses their hope for something, they are merely communicating their preference or their goal (if it is something within their control). Maybe they want others to help them achieve this goal or simply to support and cheer them on, maybe they are a dreamer and are fantasizing about their goals.

I'm not sure how this relates to prayer.
Is prayer a wishlist, hoping god will change the course of the future, or an imaginary conversation with an imaginary "best friend" whom one can imagine is supporting by sharing the hopes and dreams of the prayer maker (but without intervening).

[Genericguy]

Prayer

In prayer, I too am expressing a preference, a hope.  Just because I pray for something does not force God to do my will in that instance.

Just out of curiosity,

If you cannot change gods plan, what is the point of prayer? If hope is the only outcome of prayer, why pray? Why not just hope? I fail to see the purpose of prayer.

For clarification, please:
When you pray, are you literally speaking to your god?
Do you believe your god hears you?
Does your god respond in any way?

[Asmodean]

Does your god respond in any way?

I doubt AD is psychotic enough to have god talk to him  ???

[AnimatedDirt]

Just out of curiosity,

If you cannot change gods plan, what is the point of prayer? If hope is the only outcome of prayer, why pray? Why not just hope? I fail to see the purpose of prayer.

There is some evidence to show that prayer can "change" God's plan.  However, in context, God's plan is set in stone in that He already knows the outcome of every possible scenario and His plan is the one that will be done.  That's not to say that God manipulates all things to work out as He chooses, but that THROUGH all things His will is accomplished.

Why pray?  In context, God is our Father.  Prayers ( incidently, should always be directed to God the Father, not to Jesus...something that most Christians don't even realize. ) to him are from that context.  We as kids ask our parents all kinds of things.  Some we get, most we must wait for or we never get.  Ultimately our parents normally know what is best even when we don't, as kids, understand life.  Prayers are not so much an act of asking for things, but a communication ( one way for the most part ).  Most of my prayers are about thanks.  I normally pray before every meal just to thank God for all He's done, both seen and unseen...life, food, assurance of salvation, family, health.  And when sickness comes, I pray for healing.  Does God always heal me?  Probably the answer is the sickness takes its course and I eventually get better by my own body functions...which I believe in itself is an indirect answer from God since God made us with these functions.  But even my prayers are not enough.  They are mostly out of the thing to do at the time.  I should spend more time in prayer and study...but I spend that time here on HAF.

For clarification, please:
When you pray, are you literally speaking to your god?
Do you believe your god hears you?
Does your god respond in any way?

I don't know what you mean by "literally speaking".  If God is, then he does hear.  It's not a dialogue if that's what you mean.

I believe God hears me.

Normally I see God working in my life in hindsight, not usually in the moment other than a peace of mind which it brings.

[AnimatedDirt]

Does your god respond in any way?

I doubt AD is psychotic enough to have god talk to him  ???

Just a bit psychotic...but not psychotic enough. 

[DeterminedJuliet]

I should spend more time in prayer and study...but I spend that time here on HAF.

So we have corrupted you at least a little!

[McQ]

Just out of curiosity,

If you cannot change gods plan, what is the point of prayer? If hope is the only outcome of prayer, why pray? Why not just hope? I fail to see the purpose of prayer.

There is some evidence to show that prayer can "change" God's plan.  However, in context, God's plan is set in stone in that He already knows the outcome of every possible scenario and His plan is the one that will be done.  That's not to say that God manipulates all things to work out as He chooses, but that THROUGH all things His will is accomplished.

Why pray?  In context, God is our Father.  Prayers ( incidently, should always be directed to God the Father, not to Jesus...something that most Christians don't even realize. ) to him are from that context.  We as kids ask our parents all kinds of things.  Some we get, most we must wait for or we never get.  Ultimately our parents normally know what is best even when we don't, as kids, understand life.  Prayers are not so much an act of asking for things, but a communication ( one way for the most part ).  Most of my prayers are about thanks.  I normally pray before every meal just to thank God for all He's done, both seen and unseen...life, food, assurance of salvation, family, health.  And when sickness comes, I pray for healing.  Does God always heal me?  Probably the answer is the sickness takes its course and I eventually get better by my own body functions...which I believe in itself is an indirect answer from God since God made us with these functions.  But even my prayers are not enough.  They are mostly out of the thing to do at the time.  I should spend more time in prayer and study...but I spend that time here on HAF.

For clarification, please:
When you pray, are you literally speaking to your god?
Do you believe your god hears you?
Does your god respond in any way?

I don't know what you mean by "literally speaking".  If God is, then he does hear.  It's not a dialogue if that's what you mean.

I believe God hears me.

Normally I see God working in my life in hindsight, not usually in the moment other than a peace of mind which it brings.

From my former perspective as a christian, I understand this. Funny, but I get it. Doesn't mean I still think the same way, but totally get it.

[AnimatedDirt]

I should spend more time in prayer and study...but I spend that time here on HAF.

So we have corrupted you at least a little!

If it wasn't HAF, it would be something else.  Don't congratulate yourselves too quickly. 

[DeterminedJuliet]

I should spend more time in prayer and study...but I spend that time here on HAF.

So we have corrupted you at least a little!

If it wasn't HAF, it would be something else.  Don't congratulate yourselves too quickly. 

Too late. I've already made "AD CORRUPTER" T-shirts.