Students Evangelizing Students

[rlrose328]

On this same note, but MANY grades lower...

A few weeks ago, my son (who is 8 and in 3rd grade) told me that while at recess that day, his best friend, whom we'll call A, told him that he can't be friends with my son any more because he's an atheist.  A told my son that he can prove that god exists and that he's done so to a few other boys who were sitting with them at the time.  (The other two boys come from religious families so I don't know how A. proved god to them since they already believe in god.)

Needless to say, I was saddened for my son... he didn't sound upset or anything, but I figured i'd talk to A's mom, whom I know to be a Christian, but one with a good science and math background... we've talked extensively on many religious topics and she's as close to my way of thinking as one can be and still be a believer.   :crazy:   She told him to not discuss it at our house because it's not appropriate and to my knowledge, he didn't say anything.

She called me back after talking to A.  Here's what we pieced together from both stories:

The discussion started at morning recess and continued during lunch, lunch recess AND afternoon recess.  Someone had written "Jesus Loves You" with the playground chalk on the blacktop.  One boy said to my son that Jesus loves him.  My son said, "That's all a lie.  I'm an atheist and there is no god."  (Both my son and A. agree that he said this.)  This is when A. supposedly said that B. is an atheist and he can't play with him until he accepts Jesus as his savior.  A. denied to his mom that he said this, but she's sure B's version of events is correct, knowing her son.  The other two boys stayed out of the conversation.  And it was one of the JEWISH kids who told B. that Jesus loves him.  Go figure.

After saying he could save my son, A. also told him that atheists are evil people who steal, murder and cause all of the problems in the world, and he needs to believe in god and Jesus if he wants to go to heaven.  My son told him there is no heaven or hell to go to.

Phew.  Apparently, there were no harsh words said and the two boys have been behaving as if none of this even happened.  B. is the class clown and everyone loves him, two girls have crushes on him (saw THAT in action today), so if this had any impact on how kids see him, it isn't evident.

Both of us moms told A. and B. that they are not to discuss religion or god at school... it has no place there and can only hurt people.  I did mention it to the teacher, who said, "I don't blame him for what he said.  When it comes up around me away from school, I just say I don't want to live forever."  I KNEW I liked her.  LOL!

He can't say that there is no god or the kid is a liar for saying there is a god or jesus and not expect the brainwashed to respond.  I told him I was proud of him for standing up for what he <thinks he> believes in but it's best to just not talk about it at school.

So... it happened, he was evangelized, it was his "best" friend, and he weathered it nicely.  He still insists he's an atheist... I'm proud and bothered at the same time.  But as long as he keeps it to himself from now on, we'll be okay.

[jamesatracy]

Wow, third grade? I was first evangelized by one of my best friends in fourth grade. He was also somewhat of a clown and the whole thing blew over rather quickly.

From the looks of it, it probably helped quite a bit that A's mother and their teacher were so understanding!

[rlrose328]

Wow, third grade? I was first evangelized by one of my best friends in fourth grade. He was also somewhat of a clown and the whole thing blew over rather quickly.

From the looks of it, it probably helped quite a bit that A's mother and their teacher were so understanding!

Yes, A's mom is great... they live just down the street and I KNOW she was mortified that A. was saying things like that.  We're both very adamant about keeping religion out of the school.  I think we approach it from different perspectives, but the end result is that it doesn't belong there.

And the teacher... she has never, in 3 years, alluded to any type of belief, non- or otherwise, so I was surprised when she said that.  And she said it with a conspiratorial wink!  She knows I'm an atheist, so I'm pretty sure I didn't imagine it.  

[Kylyssa]

After I was outed by a teacher in grade school I was evangelized on regular basis at school.  After my traumatic experience, it was a bit frightening.  I feared the children and adults who evangelized me in school might suddenly burst into violence if I said the wrong thing.

[crocofish]

Yes, A's mom is great... they live just down the street and I KNOW she was mortified that A. was saying things like that.

I wonder where A got the idea that he had to evangelize and had to shun those who did not accept Jesus.  It sounds like his mom did not encourage that behavior, but he picked it up from somewhere.  Perhaps other kids at his church, other church members, or maybe something on TV.

It's like when kids say curse words, you wonder where they heard it.

[rlrose328]

I wonder where A got the idea that he had to evangelize and had to shun those who did not accept Jesus.  It sounds like his mom did not encourage that behavior, but he picked it up from somewhere.  Perhaps other kids at his church, other church members, or maybe something on TV.

It's like when kids say curse words, you wonder where they heard it.

Oh we KNOW where he got it.  Dad is a bit of an evangelical.  Mom would love nothing more than to escape... they basically have a crappy relationship which they've managed somehow to keep hidden from the kids.  But A spends quite a bit of time with Dad and after Mom told Dad about our beliefs, I have no doubt that he encouraged A to somehow save us, starting with Brendan.

Dad has never been anything but kind and outgoing toward me.  We've talked about kids, movies, his job and everything and never once has he tried to evangelize me.  But I can imagine A hears it all from Dad at home.

[Neoncamouflage]

It's great to see how well you and your son handled that, having your friends try to "save" you can quickly end friendships if you're not careful. Glad to see it all worked out ok.

[crocofish]

Oh we KNOW where he got it.  Dad is a bit of an evangelical.  Mom would love nothing more than to escape... they basically have a crappy relationship which they've managed somehow to keep hidden from the kids.

That reminds me of a story that my mom told me just a few months ago.  A neighbor and friend of my mom lives in a separate house from his ex-wife in the same neighborhood, so I asked what the story was.  My mom told me that the wife lives in the original house, and she became born-again and sent letters out to all the neighbors proclaiming her born-again status, and also wrote that she could no longer stay married to her husband because he is not religious.  What kind of nutcase sends letters out to all the neighbors like that?    The husband bought a house next to my mom.  I met him and he was a really nice guy.

I guess I have gotten a little off-topic.

[Kona]

Wow!  I mean, 3rd grade.  How does anyone really know anything about the world?  Hell, I didn't wake up until I was in my 30's!  So pardon my incredulity at believing someone at such a young age has such a command of knowledge beyond parroting what they have heard.  Will you tell me next that your child has read Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle?

[Kylyssa]

I had read On The Origin Of The Species along with many other books on science by that age so I wouldn't be surprised if other children in that age group have figured out a thing or two.  When I asked my parents a question, we'd find a book together about the subject.  I'm sure Rlrose328 does the same.  I don't think that's unusual for a child raised in a freethinking home.

Also, by that age, if properly taught, most children can distinguish between fantasy and reality.  How many eight year olds actually think Santa Claus, unicorns, or fairies are real?    

It annoys me that people dismiss the intelligence and reasoning capacity of children.  Children aren't little stupid, unreasoning things.  Their biggest weakness is their excessive trust.  As long as that trust isn't betrayed by answering their questions with fantasy or lies, children can reason quite well.

[crocofish]

Also, by that age, if properly taught, most children can distinguish between fantasy and reality.  How many eight year olds actually think Santa Claus, unicorns, or fairies are real?

I think the key phrase is "properly taught".  If kids are taught to critically think about the world around them, and if there are good adult role models, older kids should be able to reason for themselves about what is real and not real.  

I don't know any statistics on how many eight year olds believe in whatever, but I certainly know some adults that believe in fairies and angels.  Some friends of mine that I thought were atheist turned out to be more "new age", and they had an angels group where they channeled angels or something like that.  The new age people are usually pleasant to be around, but some of their beliefs make me question how mature they are.

[Kona]

Kylyssa, I would say that your experience is uncommon and well out of the fat part of the bell curve when considering most children's educational experience in the U.S. (to your benefit).  It is sad that most children do not live in such an environment at home.  Luckily, I had a shelf full of encyclopedias and National Geographic  to browse through when I was bored on those hot summer days growing up in a Texas suburb and a father that took every opportunity to take us to the local art/science museums.  (I didn't read them cover-to-cover, but some factoids paid off years later when Trivial Pursuit came out.)    :-)

[Kylyssa]

No offense was taken.

I'm aware I was an odd kid - I still am, actually.  Actually at around third grade I had a particular fascination for Desmond Morris after reading my Dad's copy of The Naked Ape and read everything of his I could get my hands on.