Theistic Evolution?

[Martian]

It really is not a novel idea. Outside the USA, theistic evolution is the norm, and has been for well over a century. In fact, it is polarisation that is novel, and the strange thing is that it is not long since atheists rejected American fundamentalists as mere 'liars for Christ'. It is pretty plain that nobody believes in evolution like an American Young-Earth Creationist, so transparent are the lies they put into print.

(I probably should have mentioned that I'm talking about the Christian God when I use the term "God".)

This is a strange phenomena. I've been searching on the web for explainations that justify the belief in the Biblical God (as divinely inspired from God)  and evolution, but I have not found anything other than the usual "God can use evolution to create." This seems like a direct contradiction. It's like saying God used gravity to create rain.

There are usually other points which are made that confuse the argument.
It's true that the bible isn't a science book. But who's asking it give scientific explainations?
It's true that evolution is compatible with Deism (and maybe some other god concepts that I don't care to discuss). But we're talking about the Biblical God concept, which isn't compatible with evolution.
It's true that the bible uses allegory. But Genesis serves no allegorical purpose.
It's (possibly) true that the majority of Christians around the world believe in evolution. But where's their justification for doing so?

The contradiction between the bible and evolution exists and I want an explaination of how the two ideas can be accepted at once. You seem to be knowledgeable of the history of evolution and Christianity. Could you explain what's going on here?

[rdm]

It really is not a novel idea. Outside the USA, theistic evolution is the norm, and has been for well over a century. In fact, it is polarisation that is novel, and the strange thing is that it is not long since atheists rejected American fundamentalists as mere 'liars for Christ'. It is pretty plain that nobody believes in evolution like an American Young-Earth Creationist, so transparent are the lies they put into print.

(I probably should have mentioned that I'm talking about the Christian God when I use the term "God".)

This is a strange phenomena. I've been searching on the web for explainations that justify the belief in the Biblical God (as divinely inspired from God)  and evolution, but I have not found anything other than the usual "God can use evolution to create." This seems like a direct contradiction. It's like saying God used gravity to create rain.

There are usually other points which are made that confuse the argument.
It's true that the bible isn't a science book. But who's asking it give scientific explainations?
It's true that evolution is compatible with Deism (and maybe some other god concepts that I don't care to discuss). But we're talking about the Biblical God concept, which isn't compatible with evolution.
It's true that the bible uses allegory. But Genesis serves no allegorical purpose.
It's (possibly) true that the majority of Christians around the world believe in evolution. But where's their justification for doing so?

The contradiction between the bible and evolution exists and I want an explaination of how the two ideas can be accepted at once. You seem to be knowledgeable of the history of evolution and Christianity. Could you explain what's going on here?

There are many believers who are scientists, often biologists, and they are often good scientists, and able to argue cogently about their beliefs, too. They believe in evolution for the same reasons that everyone else does. Now they do not believe that there is any conflict between ET and Genesis, because it is plain, to them, that early Genesis is not a literal account. They say it is a collection of 'story myths'. Story myths were universal in all civilised societies of the ancient world, from China to the Americas, and they dealt with such things as creation, great feats by gods, great human feats, floods, wars, monsters, etc. They persisted into relatively modern times with such epic tales as Beowulf. Now if regarded as science, or history, none of them make any sense at all. The ancients just did not care about science, because they did not have any. We are very concerned with it, because we rely on it for our very survival. They were entirely at the mercy of primitive agriculture and technology, prone to whatever the elements might throw at them, drought and flood, and pestilence and dangerous animals also. Because of their helplessness, they got guilt feelings, and thought that they were responsible when things went wrong, and answerable to various gods, gods that they had of course invented. Hence all these attempts to come to terms with a dangerous world, through stories. They could tell their children these stories and give them a sense of stability and order, and to explain how things came to be as they were. These stories and their telling acted as social 'glue'. That was their real meaning. Whether anyone really believed them is hard to say. There is not too much evidence that they did. There were rarely wars to decide which story myth was the right one.

So it is inappropriate to suppose that these ancient creation accounts and other accounts are to be taken as literal truth, because it is to apply anachronism.

Now if, as believers claim, there is a true deity who adapted some of these story myths for his own purposes, and if they can claim that there is moral or religious significance in these myths, objections from evolutionary theory, or indeed from any scientific field, will fall on deaf ears- and they do. Because, despite your comment, they do find moral and religious significance in them. The creation of light and dark represent good and evil, the seventh day represents an eternal rest, a serpent represents Satan, a tree represents eternal life, the ark of Noah represents Christ saving souls, and so on.

To believers, then, a concept of a deity who creates matter/energy in space-time which then evolves into the universe as we find it brings no difficulties.